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Old 07-08-2005, 05:23 AM   #16
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3. ...Many African nations, like the Middle-Eastern nations we have come to know and love, HATE the United States, don't forget that. They despise our success and our perceived waste and consumption of the world’s resources and running water because they are jealous, plain and simple. They would sooner bomb us, invade us and steal our resources for themselves rather than ask us for what they need and want but they have to only because they are too impoverished, disorganized and corrupt to take it.

This is quite simply an unadulterated untruth and it makes me livid to read it. What the fuck does he know about what Africans think? Has he ever been here? Does he know any Africans? Oh yeah, they all hate us so much. Bullshit.

I'm sorry but that whole paragraph reeks of racism and ignorance. Bomb, invade, steal? When was the last time an African nation attacked the USA and tried to steal their natural resources???? WTF? If anything, it is the Western world who has repeated raped and pillaged the African continent, stolen their natural resources, enslaved the people in debt with projects they didn't even ask for.

No offense to your dad, but that makes me so angry I could cry.
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Old 07-08-2005, 06:01 AM   #17
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I agree- no offense to your father but that seems like some very arrogant steteotyping about Africa and Africans to me as well.

As for Bono vs Tom Cruise, Bono has been to Africa several times, he's experienced it for himself. He meets w/ people of all different viewpoints about the subject of debt, aid, etc, he doesn't dismiss them as invalid and just want to hear one view like Tom Cruise does.

Tom Cruise seems to be spewing out what Scientology has told him-I haven't read one concrete thing he claims to know about ADD, depression, post partum depression, psychiatric drugs other than what Scientology's view of it is. As far as I know Tom Cruise has never experienced depression..certainly not post partum depression
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Old 07-08-2005, 06:25 AM   #18
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Considering Bono has been involved with African issues for twenty years now shows he's doing a bit more than paying lip service to the issues. And I really admire him for that.

However, I can understand looking at the situation with a skeptical eye. I often wonder how we can keep aid from getting into the hands of corrupt and evil politicians. And sometimes I wonder if celebs are doing more than mouthing off and actually donating their own money. I'm sure many do.

And the poor in America are quite rich compared to the poor in Africa.

And it is possible to act globally and act locally. I've donated to Africare and Unicef and I've donated both my money and time to local charities like the Hunger Task Force and Camp Heartland.

Okay, I'll get off my high horse now. Good luck with your dad.
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Old 07-08-2005, 07:33 AM   #19
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I can understand skepticism of a celebrity's cause, especially when Tom Cruise made such a fool of himself on TV lately. The thinig about Bono is that he's studied economics, spent alot of time in Africa, talked to people who are in the know about the situation, etc, etc. He knows what he's doing. If he were just mouthing off without anything to back up what he's saying I wouldn't pay any attention to him. But that's not the case. On the other hand Tom Cruise only knows Scientology propaganda, it's clear that he's never researched this stuff.
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Old 07-08-2005, 07:35 AM   #20
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I agree with many points you guys have made on both sides of the issue. No offense taken, that's why I posted it here in the first place. I wanted to know other people's opinions.
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:35 PM   #21
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They despise our success and our perceived waste and consumption of the world’s resources and running water because they are jealous, plain and simple.
I'm just trying to find a way to comment on that little gem without appearing disrespectful to your dad. 'Jealous, plain and simple'?!! Utter nonsense. It is even sadder when one sees it coming from a man who is obviously articulate.

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most people that aren't big music fans didn't even know about it this weekend!
Um. My flabber is severely gasted at this.

You pointed out the facts to your dad, I'm guessing, by the exasperation in your post?

If people didn't know about Live8, the likelihood is that they would never heard of the original Live Aid, as the two are inevitably linked. We know that Live Aid was watched by about 1.7 billion viewers in 150 countries -- the biggest-ever TV event. Not to mention the 72000-strong London audience, alongside 90,000 at New York.

As for Live 8. The BBC says:
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The Live 8 concerts form the largest global TV broadcast in history, organisers have said.

Concerts in 10 cities, including London, Philadelphia, Paris, Berlin, Johannesburg, Rome and Moscow played to hundreds of thousands of people.

Some 85% of the world's population tuned into the concert through a variety of media. A TV audience of several hundred million were watching the gigs, ahead of the G8 summit of leaders next week.
I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that anyone who has access to TV, radio, the internet, the world news or even national news, could 'not know about it'.

Surely nobody can be (searching for least offensive description)... so far out of touch with global events over the past 20 years. Are you sure he wasn't just trying to wind you up?
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Old 07-11-2005, 06:13 PM   #22
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I dont want to jump on the bandwagon, but the only hint of truth is at the waste of resources. And even that is not America's sole fault or responsibility. All western nations have their fair share of guilt. Do African nations hate us for that? I'd guess no, backed up further by the replies of those with more knowledge in one finger than my entire being has. It's a seperate issue though. We should be despised for it, to an extent, and certainly should be more gung-ho about changing it. I see individuals passionate about change, and am inspired and so on, but when it comes to our collective governments... This is sidetracking though.
I agree with indra's points. I'd not follow something because a band I likes, does. If it does happen with this issue and Bono, then does that really do any harm anyway? I sound like I'm contradicting myself. But if a fan gets more learned because of their band's passion, then it is only a good thing. And it's my unlearned opinion that Bono knows more about this than I ever could, and isn't spouting to boost his ego or celebrity or whatever. He's dedicated such a large portion of his adult life to these issues.
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Old 07-11-2005, 06:52 PM   #23
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I believe a solution exists, but not the one Bono advocates.
That's great! Let's hear it then.

*waiting*

How would you describe Bono's 'solution' then? Are you familiar with all DATA's plans and policies? Genuine question.

Oh, one more thing: how much have you done to work towards finding this solution?

I thought as much.

Quote:
...it's my unlearned opinion that Bono knows more about this than I ever could, and isn't spouting to boost his ego or celebrity or whatever. He's dedicated such a large portion of his adult life to these issues.

But if a fan gets more learned because of their band's passion, then it is only a good thing.
I'd just like to say that I completely understand skepticism. I don't believe in following a 'cause' just because a certain band does, either.

That doesn't change the fact that Bono has done a great deal to help spread awareness of the problems Africa suffers. This lays foundations for developing a more workable solution. The debt-aid-trade deal can can potentially make a big difference.

We all know change is a slow process in these areas... as far as I am concerned, that is all the more reason to learn about what's going on and work together in order to do something about it.
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:08 PM   #24
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:44 PM   #25
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This is a toughie to deal with. I come across this all the time. What I have found most effective in dealing with these topics is taking on the argument a little bit at a time. Find the least "hot" part of it and start from there. Perhaps an area where you may have an opinion (or portion of it) in common.

This is a topic that generates a lot of negative reaction, and often it is the result of the person feeling personally attacked for not doing enough. Sometimes it also brings to light a lot of subconscious guilt, which can trigger a negative reaction as well.

In this crazy world where we all have so much going on, sometimes we forget that we are all human and that each and every one of us has basic human rights. Basic human rights, regardless of where we were born, regardless of where we live, regardless of the color of our skin.
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:52 PM   #26
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I understand his skepticism and a lot (though for God sake, not all) of his points, I just don't know why his email was so angry? I don't want to pry but if you don't mind me asking, was he in a particularly bad mood when he wrote it? Have you talked to him since? And you said he was in Scotland for the G8, does his anger have anything to do with his job--is it a career where he can personally see that Bono, et. all are going about everything the wrong way? I'd try to answer is email in a very calm, rational, way, and let him know you don't appreciate his tone.
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:29 PM   #27
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
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Throwing money at poverty... yadda yadda
The more I see of this, the more it irritates me. We're on about fundraising to develop fairer trade for Africa, food, housing, medical supplies and much needed vaccines. It's hardly a handout. This is about assisting Africa's people to develop their country further, and reach a higher and safer standard of living without being crippled by poverty and illness. How anyone can have a problem with that is way beyond me. Particularly when those who slate Bono for his actions have no alternative "solution" to offer. Sheesh.

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DATA:
$22 billion will be needed in 2008 to reverse the spread of AIDS in the developing world, according to latest UNAIDS estimates. These figures feature in a new report on estimated funding needs produced by the UNAIDS Secretariat, to be released to the UNAIDS Programme Coordinating Board at the end of June.
TWENTY TWO BILLION BUCKS. That figure refers purely to slowly pushing AIDS into decline. So yeah, Bono, open your checkbook now, we all know you've got tens of billions of cash to pass up. Not to mention several hundred billion more, for all the other major problems Africa needs to deal with, in order to become stable.

To anyone who still wishes to moan about Bono, Geldof, and the rest of the Hairbear Bunch: you have NO IDEA how much money these people donate, quietly. One of my friends went to primary school with Michael Eavis - the two have been best friends ever since. Michael Eavis donated a huge proportion of his earnings to charity. As does David Gilmour of Pink Floyd. They just don't shout about it. So learn your facts before you start slating Bono for being a 'greedy hypocrite'.
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:46 PM   #28
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I think perhaps Bono is the wrong messenger for Sami's dad. He's certainly not going to appeal to everyone...many people think he's the world's biggest prick.

For instance, Pat Robertson is would be a hideous messenger for me. I wouldn't believe a single word he said (and that includes conjunctions and articles) without independent verification by several other sources (even more vigorous vetting than what I demand from the usual celebrities), and even then I would be suspicious.

So my suggestion is to leave Bono completely out of your discussions/arguments whith your dad on the subject and cite people he is more apt to respect and believe.
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:53 PM   #29
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^^^I concur.
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:00 PM   #30
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May be the easiest way!
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