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Old 08-07-2007, 09:44 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
Yeah but sometimes certain words carry meanings that confuse. And i was sort or aiming my little rant at deep hehee about the right to choose
If I don't own guns

but believe in the right to choose to own guns or not to own guns



would you call me pro-gun?

or

pro choice? - because I believe in the right to choose to own guns or not?

let each citizen choose for themselves - do not ban gun ownership / or abortion /


is pro-choice the right term ?

Is there any chance of not allowing women the right to choose to carry a fetus full term and give birth.


So called pro-choice people are only in the debate to support the right to abortion

In any thing, you are pro-choice the right to choose abortion.


Now pro-choice in China, you would have a valid argument.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:18 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
So called pro-choice people are only in the debate to support the right to abortion

In any thing, you are pro-choice the right to choose abortion.
You've almost got it.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:11 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


If I don't own guns

but believe in the right to choose to own guns or not to own guns



would you call me pro-gun?

or

pro choice? - because I believe in the right to choose to own guns or not?

let each citizen choose for themselves - do not ban gun ownership / or abortion /


is pro-choice the right term ?

Is there any chance of not allowing women the right to choose to carry a fetus full term and give birth.


So called pro-choice people are only in the debate to support the right to abortion

In any thing, you are pro-choice the right to choose abortion.


Now pro-choice in China, you would have a valid argument.
What's interesting here is that many people who'd choose to call themselves "pro-choice" rather than pro-abortion would not hesitate to call someone who supported the right to own guns "pro-gun", whether that person owned guns or not.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:39 PM   #139
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I'd say "pro-gun rights" but I wouldn't object to being called "pro-abortion rights" either. A lot of this posturing over names is about the terms of the debate - "pro choice" sounds as benignly good as "pro life," whereas "pro abortion" doesn't.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:23 PM   #140
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I've noticed the term 'pro abortion rights' being used a lot in the campaigns of the presidential hopefuls. Unfortunately 'pro life' is still out there. I'd like to see both the 'life' and 'choice' shit dumped, they are indeed just comfort zones that need to be stripped off the issue. I don't see anything wrong with an anti-gun control person being called pro gun either. I look at it straight up if you support someone being able to get an abortion anytime they want one then you're pro abortion and if you support someone buying a gun anytime they want one then you're pro gun. If you got a problem with these labels, maybe you don't feel as confident of your position as you'd like to think if you have to change the name to something that makes you feel better.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:26 PM   #141
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Oh and the gun thing brings up another contradiction of idealogy. Most gun control supporters are also abortion proponents. But by wanting to take away the right of the average citizen to buy a gun, doesn't that make the person 'anti choice'? You oppose the person's right to gun ownership, just as an anti abortionist opposes a person's choice of an abortion. So a person who is anti abortion but anti gun control may rightfully call the pro abortion, pro gun control person 'anti choice' and themselves 'pro choice' for supporting the right of gun ownership. So we have hypocrisy here. This is why we need to cut the crap and call a spade a spade.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:40 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
if you support someone being able to get an abortion anytime they want one then you're pro abortion
Many people in favor of legalised abortion aren't for abortion on demand, i.e. "anytime you want", but for other reasons already listed here.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:45 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega


Many people in favor of legalised abortion aren't for abortion on demand, i.e. "anytime you want", but for other reasons already listed here.
Duh. In my first post here I said I supported them for rape or health issues but not just because you 'change your mind' and don't want to deal with the kid anymore. So I don't consider myself pro or against or labeled in any way. Why do we have to have labels? We can't lump people like that because we're all different. The terms can even be devisive. No blankets on anybody!
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:50 PM   #144
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Just wanted to stress that many people are campaigning for the rights to have an abortion, but aren't that positive about abortions on demand.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:56 PM   #145
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pro- abortion rights may be the best term



also, most pro- gun rights people do not have problems with some controls, restrictions and even bans on some weapons
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:08 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


Duh. In my first post here I said I supported them for rape or health issues
I'm gonna ask anyway. No one ever seems to able to answer, but what the hell.

How are you going to run the system so women who've been raped can opt to abort?
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:12 PM   #147
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Isn't it hypocritical to be "pro-life" and yet support abortions in cases that don't threaten the mother's life? I mean, if you're pro-life, what is it about a foetus that's a product of a rape that makes it less worthy than another?
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:22 PM   #148
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I mean, if you're pro-life, what is it about a foetus that's a product of a rape that makes it less worthy than another?
I really think that it's a way to keep the movement more mainstream. I remember a few decades ago, if you dug deep enough into the anti-chioce movement, most of the leaders were frighteningly anti-birth control. Many of them were men who truly believed that women should not be able to have any control over their reproductive systems at all, lest a potential baby be prevented.

This is one of the reasons I fight so hard here; so many people take this crap for granted and don't realize/remember/care how much control these people really think they should have. I'm sure many of today's "pro-life" folks don't have an real clue as to how controlling the leaders of these movements want to be. They carry their placards with dead fetuses, and they pray for the dead babies, thinking that if a woman (read: their sister) is raped, she'll still be able to make a decision. They don't truly understand what they're supporting.

Look at what happened in South Dakota. Those fools elected a "pro-life" legislature and got what they thought they wanted: an anti-abortion law that outlawed it in every single case. Every single case. They shit themsleves. I had no sympathy for them.
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:59 AM   #149
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You shouldn't have the right to choose to have guns, there should be no guns at all in the hands of citizens. I'm not anti choice, im anti guns altogether. Guns kill other people, abortions kill nothing but a tiny blob of cells. They are miles apart and its silly trying to put them into context with each other.
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Old 08-09-2007, 04:09 AM   #150
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so you are anti-gun
for those that want to have guns

and pro-abortion
for those that want to have abortions
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