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Old 03-04-2004, 10:14 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave
Dread, how do you interpret John 14:6?

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (my emphasis)

This is actually from the same discussion with the disciples you initially mentioned, just after He made the comment about His Father's house having many rooms...
Again,,,I despise taking a verse or two out of context of the book.

What is Jesus responding to in his comments? He was reassuring his disciples in the passage that they would be fine.

What you are quoting does not change what I believe......

Jesus is the way in my belief. He died for the sins of everyone, NOT JUST CHRISTIANS. That makes him the WAY. He is the truth, in that he came to free mankind from the LAW which was twisted and limited Jews from receiving the GRACE of GOD. Over and over he defies the Temple leaders, demonstrating how TWISTED the Law was. He is the life because he is the BOUNCER at the door. He decides who gets in, and by HIS Grace we enter into our Father's house. So Jesus is saying....You cannot get into the father's house, except through me.

He never says my GRACE will be denied...

The entire passage is a passage in which he is reassuring his disciples and specifically doubting Thomas....who asks how will they know the way?

I can prove many things by taking a line from the Bible....
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Old 03-04-2004, 10:40 PM   #77
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Jesus is the way in my belief. He died for the sins of everyone, NOT JUST CHRISTIANS. That makes him the WAY. He is the truth, in that he came to free mankind from the LAW which was twisted and limited Jews from receiving the GRACE of GOD. Over and over he defies the Temple leaders, demonstrating how TWISTED the Law was. He is the life because he is the BOUNCER at the door. He decides who gets in, and by HIS Grace we enter into our Father's house. So Jesus is saying....You cannot get into the father's house, except through me.
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Old 03-04-2004, 11:46 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Again,,,I despise taking a verse or two out of context of the book.

What is Jesus responding to in his comments? He was reassuring his disciples in the passage that they would be fine.

What you are quoting does not change what I believe......

Jesus is the way in my belief. He died for the sins of everyone, NOT JUST CHRISTIANS. That makes him the WAY. He is the truth, in that he came to free mankind from the LAW which was twisted and limited Jews from receiving the GRACE of GOD. Over and over he defies the Temple leaders, demonstrating how TWISTED the Law was. He is the life because he is the BOUNCER at the door. He decides who gets in, and by HIS Grace we enter into our Father's house. So Jesus is saying....You cannot get into the father's house, except through me.

He never says my GRACE will be denied...

The entire passage is a passage in which he is reassuring his disciples and specifically doubting Thomas....who asks how will they know the way?

I can prove many things by taking a line from the Bible....
Thank you Dread.
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Old 03-04-2004, 11:48 PM   #79
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Let me just quote one of my favorite sailors;

"if it wasn't for the good souls life would not matter."
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:38 AM   #80
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Yeah I'm sorry I opened such a can of worms by bringing up the old faith vs. works thing. Alas it does exist, and as one can see, not all Christians believe the same things, not at all.

Maybe the real answer is that you have to be good enough to recognise good when you finally get to it - ie. heaven.

This would suggest that a Hitler will never see heaven not because some God cast him down to hell with Satan, but that he put himself there because his twisted soul would recoil from the goodness that is alien to anything he understands.

Hitler is an awfully extreme example though, cause he really was evil. He was a nihilist in the purest sense.

This thread might be better applied to the merely mediocre - ie. most of us.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:39 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
So, do some Christians go to Hell for their conduct?
There is essentially only one sin that will "send you to hell" - the rejection of Jesus Christ as Savior.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:40 AM   #82
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Originally posted by anitram
What I find funny is that Catholics accept non-Christians can get be saved. And Catholics comprise the CLEAR majority of Christians, outnumbering Protestants by a margin of MORE than 2:1.

Yet it's fundamentalist evangelicals which have hijacked Christianity for themselves and act as if though they are representative of the religion. Not only are they not, but they are a minority.
Funny, but God didn't say having more people on your side will get you to heaven.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:43 AM   #83
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
So clearly God expects and intends for the Creation, US, to do good works. Grace does not exclude us from doing works.
Of course God does not exclude us from doing works. But it is contrary to Scripture to say that works will earn your Salvation.

If there is another way, God has not revealed it to us. So the question becomes, do we follow what God has revealed or do we base this on something else?
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:44 AM   #84
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Question answered, then. Hope that helps you, Martha.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:45 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


BEEP BEEP...

Play again....

Jesus can extend his grace to whomever he chooses too.....
No one is saying He can't or won't. The issue is, "what is your source of Truth?"
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:45 AM   #86
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How good do you have to be to get to heaven?

As a Christian, I believe that "getting to heaven" is a combination of works and grace.

In numerous scriptures we are told that it is by the grace of Christ we are saved through faith in Him.

Yet, to believe that all you have to do is confess Christ as your Savior and how you conduct your life thereafter has no bearing on your salvation would be to utterly ignore what James spoke of:

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?......Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ----James 2:14 & 17.

To put it simply, I believe that we are expected to live the best we can according to our knowledge of the commandments, and when we mess up, excercise our faith in Christ and His Atonement by quickly humbling ourselves and repenting (this is where the grace part comes in, for we could never repent and be forgiven of our sins if it were not for Christ's atonement). To me, being "saved" is not a one-time thing. It is a continuous, life-long process of good works, faith and repentance.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:48 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


I *think* Catholicism is more of a faith-works denomination. But by "works" I mean religious rituals/sacramental means of Salvation (baptism, penance, Eucharist, etc).

Actually, 'works' means how you live your life. Simple as that.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, by all means.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:50 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
So, they can murder and then go to Heaven?
Think of it this way. God's grace can cover anything. To suggest that there is some type of conduct that God cannot forgive is a limitation on an all-powerful, loving God.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:52 AM   #89
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Old 03-05-2004, 01:08 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Jesus is the way in my belief. He died for the sins of everyone, NOT JUST CHRISTIANS.
Well, of course Jesus died for everyone. Not everyone accepts the gift of grace, however. Not everone make Jesus their Lord and Savior. Rejection of Jesus = no grace.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
He is the truth, in that he came to free mankind from the LAW which was twisted and limited Jews from receiving the GRACE of GOD. Over and over he defies the Temple leaders, demonstrating how TWISTED the Law was.
God gave the Hebrews the Law because they would not live by faith - they wanted rules and regulations.

The twisting of the Law occured when the Pharasees began to enforce their own traditions on an equal or higher level than the Law - largely to maintain the power they had over the people.

Jesus says "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I can prove many things by taking a line from the Bible....
Agreed. Let's compare Scripture with Scripture:

Acts 4:11-12 - "He is 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.' Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Acts 16:30-31 - He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son

Matthew 7:13-14 - Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


I could go on.....
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