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Old 02-20-2007, 11:56 AM   #46
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I do think integrity matters...I'm don't think I'd rank Clinton among the "great" because of it. However there's a pretty wide gap between great & sucks. I do think Clinton was a good President, above average for sure.
On top of that, can anyone honestly know what kind of indiscretions any of the other presidents had?

I hear Woodrow Wilson was a FREAK in the bedroom

Clinton just got caught and he looses points for that...
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:00 PM   #47
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I don't care about Clinton's bad choices. As a matter of fact, I thought the Republicans were wasting their time. I don't feel that the US will ever have a great president because there will always be an incident of incidents that will mar their term or terms.

Quite frankly, I don't believe that Reagan cheated on Nancy while in office. The guy was 69 when he was first elected president.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:42 PM   #48
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*and* Lincoln was gay.

our greatest, gayest president!
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:46 PM   #49
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*and* Lincoln was gay.

our greatest, gayest president!
He was?!

That does explain why he was such a fancy dresser...
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:49 PM   #50
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Call me melodramatic and/or delusional, but I honestly think that Hillary Clinton is going to be the truly great president that Bill Clinton was supposed to be.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:52 PM   #51
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because it's absurd to draw comparisons between Lincoln and, say, a certain republican president with abysmal approval ratings bogged down in an unpopular, unwinnable war.
In fact Lincoln at the time was considered to be an unpopular president bogged down in an "unwinnable war". The peace platform in 1864 stated that the war had "FAILED".

During his time in office, Lincoln was probably the most unpopular president in US history. But in less than 100 years, he would become the most popular President in US history.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:20 PM   #52
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Surely you're not making comparisons between the Civil War and today?
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:25 PM   #53
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Surely you're not making comparisons between the Civil War and today?
Bush did yesterday-he compared the war on terror to the Revolutionary War
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:26 PM   #54
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Surely you're not making comparisons between the Civil War and today?


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Old 02-20-2007, 01:54 PM   #55
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Surely you're not making comparisons between the Civil War and today?
Of course not, why would anyone do that in a thread that compares Presidents several hundred years apart and attempts to rank or claim who was better?
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:00 PM   #56
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I think that like Washington, Lincoln, and FDR - George W. believes that our current struggles are essential for the perseverance of freedom and democracy.

I'm not saying that he executing these struggles they right way, nor is he inspiring people to follow him. But I do share his core motivation.

Once we are in a full blown World War, and this certainly will come in the next several years, then revisionist will probably look back and judge that W was actually fairly weak on combating Islamic Fascism, the true enemy of our times.


The late 1930's and early 1940's FDR is what I would love to see in office right now. A close second would be Washington, followed by Lincoln, and then Reagan.

I would also bring back General Grant to run Iraq, and General Lee to take care of Afghanistan. I would keep Patton for the war with Iran and Syria and North Africa.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:06 PM   #57
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I think that like Washington, Lincoln, and FDR - George W. believes that our current struggles are essential for the perseverance of freedom and democracy.


believe it or not, i actually agree with you here.

he's just been wrong about everything, aside from the initial invasion of Afghanistan.

but i think his motivations are in part due to the fact that he does understand how nihilistic and homocidal jihadist Islamism is. but then, Iraq has never had anything to do with the GWOT, so that's a totally separate consideration altogether.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:20 PM   #58
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Originally posted by Irvine511




believe it or not, i actually agree with you here.

he's just been wrong about everything, aside from the initial invasion of Afghanistan.

but i think his motivations are in part due to the fact that he does understand how nihilistic and homocidal jihadist Islamism is. but then, Iraq has never had anything to do with the GWOT, so that's a totally separate consideration altogether.
Yes, Iraq wasn't the core problem state. I'm thinking we are there solely because it is the perfect location to fight a war in the overall Middle East theater. Iraq borders many of that states that are fostering, financing, and spreading Islamic Jihad.

And remember I said this, any new president, no matter what political party, will not entirely remove out troops from Iraq. It will be the staging point for a much larger war.
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:35 PM   #59
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Being right in the middle is not an exact position to start a war.

Just look back at the two times Germany tried this.
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:40 PM   #60
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega
Being right in the middle is not an exact position to start a war.

Just look back at the two times Germany tried this.
Good point. However, we are also in Afghanistan and we have India and Israel as close allies.
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