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Old 02-19-2007, 11:33 PM   #16
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Originally posted by verte76
My favorite president has always been FDR. The New Deal was the best thing to ever happen to this country. Reagan is definitely overrated.
agreed. FDR is my favorite too.
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:35 PM   #17
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Originally posted by phanan


Lincoln was re-elected primarily because of the split vote amongst the Democratic party - many were part of the "Peace" platform, but when a former general of the war is your candidate, you're going to get mixed results.
True - and even with McClellan as the candidate, Lincoln didn't feel he'd be re-elected - according to the biographies I've read.

The point I'm trying to make is that it seems to take time to see how great a president was or wasn't. If Lincoln had not been re-elected, and the peace Democrats won the election and gave the South their independence - then Lincoln would have been considered a dismal failure.

Thank God for General Grant...
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:36 PM   #18
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FDR by a mile. The man led the country through the Great Depression and WWII.
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

Thank God for General Grant...


Grant, maybe ... Sherman?

many think that what he did to Atlanta was, like, TOTALLY out of proportion. and far be it from me to defend the antebellum South -- though my better half is southern -- but the point has been made to me, several times, that your average southern soldier was poor, was conscripted, had no real political interests, and wasn't a slave owner.

for whatever that's worth.
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


If Lincoln had not been re-elected, and the peace Democrats won the election and gave the South their independence - then Lincoln would have been considered a dismal failure.
Who can say?

Perhaps we would have been better off with both the United States and the Confederate States.

Slavery would have ended.

Where did it last as a government institution pass the 1800s?
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:36 AM   #21
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FDR, hands down.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:40 AM   #22
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FDR, legs down.


Clinton, pants down.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:51 AM   #23
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can you cite these approval ratings? can we really compare across the centuries? did Lincoln remain below 50% for the entirety of his 2nd term? did Lincoln remain well below 40% for the majority of his 2nd term?
Lincoln won the Presidency in 1860 with only 39% of the vote, the lowest in US history. The War did not increase Lincolns popularity and with respect to the entire country, he obviously spent his entire time in office well below 40%. His second term only lasted 43 days before he was assassinated.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:05 AM   #24
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The greatest US hasn't even been born yet.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:06 AM   #25
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Originally posted by deep


Who can say?

Perhaps we would have been better off with both the United States and the Confederate States.

Slavery would have ended.

Where did it last as a government institution pass the 1800s?
Slavery would have endured in the Confederate States of America, longer than any other place in the world. The hardship that African Americans would suffer would be multiplied before and after any sort of future Confederate emancipation of the Slaves.

The two new countries would both be weaker and less able to contribute to important global crises in the years to come potentially changing the history of the planet for the worse. Hostility between the two new countries would still exist and another war would remain a possibility, which would potentially be much more costly. Foreign countries would always be able to exploit the divisions between the two new countries for their advantage.

The peace platform that considered the war to be a "failure" would have only brought a very temporary peace and would create far more problems than it would solve.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:06 AM   #26
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The greatest US president hasn't even been born yet. The last 10 have sucked though.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


True - and even with McClellan as the candidate, Lincoln didn't feel he'd be re-elected - according to the biographies I've read.

The point I'm trying to make is that it seems to take time to see how great a president was or wasn't. If Lincoln had not been re-elected, and the peace Democrats won the election and gave the South their independence - then Lincoln would have been considered a dismal failure.

Thank God for General Grant...
Thank God McClellan didn't win.

I'm taking a Civil War History class right now - McClellan was the most infuriating and bumbling military commander I've ever heard of, maybe in all of history.

I just read the chapter where he was removed after Antietam, but he had two potentially war-ending opportunities in 1862 at Mechanicsburg and Antietam, and yet even though he had Lee's actual battle plans before the battle, he still managed to waste these chances because of chronic paranoia.

I wish this man was still alive today, just so I could punch him in the face.

ETA: While I think Lincoln is vastly overrated, he's still better than most of the other options. I'd say Abe, FDR, JFK, in that order, but I agree the "Greatest" probably hasn't come about yet.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:08 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrPryck2U
The greatest US president hasn't even been born yet. The last 10 have sucked though.
You really think Clinton sucked as a President? Why?
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


Lincoln won the Presidency in 1860 with only 39% of the vote, the lowest in US history. The War did not increase Lincolns popularity and with respect to the entire country, he obviously spent his entire time in office well below 40%. His second term only lasted 43 days before he was assassinated.


thusly ending the possibility of comparisons.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:25 AM   #30
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Originally posted by DaveC


Thank God McClellan didn't win.

I'm taking a Civil War History class right now - McClellan was the most infuriating and bumbling military commander I've ever heard of, maybe in all of history.

I just read the chapter where he was removed after Antietam, but he had two potentially war-ending opportunities in 1862 at Mechanicsburg and Antietam, and yet even though he had Lee's actual battle plans before the battle, he still managed to waste these chances because of chronic paranoia.

While I agree McCellan was a very poor commander, Lee needs some credit here. He always had the Union generals believing he had twice as many soldiers than he really had.

The thing I like about Grant is that he didn't care one way or another. He was going to finish the war or have the entire Army die trying.

Soldiers are willing to die for a single purpose - victory. True victory is the destruction of the enemy or the enemy's will to fight, whichever comes first. Grant knew this and so did Lincoln. I only wish our current commmander and chief and his generals would act so boldly.
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