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Old 09-22-2003, 05:23 PM   #31
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


This is also his honeymoon period. Numbers may change as he starts to reveal specifics and more clearly defines his position.
Let's not forget that he(Clark) almost touched off WWIII during Kosovo by ordering an attacfk on Russian troops. This was reported by the BBC a long time ago if I am not mistaken.

And, Clark is supposed to hurt Kerry and Lieberman, not Dean so much. And, yes, I posted this here before the article posted earlier in the thread. I want legal representation to sue the publisher of the article. They stole my theory.
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:40 PM   #32
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[Q]Disputes with allies

But the campaign was not as swift and decisive as Nato had hoped and there were a series of mistakes, including the bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade.

There were other difficulties - General Clark's plea for Apache helicopters to be deployed was a source of friction with the Pentagon and there was a celebrated dispute with the British commander General Sir Mike Jackson.


Clark was honoured by the UK, despite a major spat
"I'm not going to start the Third World War for you," the British commander reportedly told General Clark as he refused to send troops to stop Russian forces taking control of Pristina airport. [/Q]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3110020.stm
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:42 PM   #33
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Let's not forget that he(Clark) almost touched off WWIII during Kosovo by ordering an attacfk on Russian troops. This was reported by the BBC a long time ago if I am not mistaken.

Dreadsox wins the best memory award today.

From BBC : Confrontation over Pristina airport - 9 March 2000


Quote:
But General Clark's plan was blocked by General Sir Mike Jackson, K-For's British commander.

"I'm not going to start the Third World War for you," he reportedly told General Clark during one heated exchange.

General Jackson tells the BBC: ''We were [looking at] a possibility....of confrontation with the Russian contingent which seemed to me probably not the right way to start off a relationship with Russians who were going to become part of my command.''
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:43 PM   #34
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I'd hate to burst some bubbles here, but do you really think that any of Clark's mistakes in Kosovo really compare to the misinformation and mistakes that have happened in Iraq under the Bush Administration?

Either way, it is good that candidates are being scrutinized now, although where is the real scrutiny against the Bush Administration currently? As I'd like to ask, "what liberal media?"

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Old 09-22-2003, 05:45 PM   #35
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I think the WWIII statement was one of hyperbole.
Actually he just wanted to put an order through to block the runway of the airport, not to "attack Russian troops".

And it doesn't matter who Clark "hurts" in the primary. There can only be one candidate for President. Doesn't matter now if he hurts Dean or Kerry or Kusinich, it all comes down to one person to represent the Democratic party.
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:46 PM   #36
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"Let's not forget that he(Clark) almost touched off WWIII during Kosovo by ordering an attacfk on Russian troops. This was reported by the BBC a long time ago if I am not mistaken."

Clark wanted a small British Unit to secure the only airport in Kosovo which was in the capital. A Russian Unit in Bosnia left Bosnia and moved into Kosovo and took the Airport. This led to a diplomatic row and made the the aftermath of the war a little tougher in terms of negotiations. The Airport was key to bringing in Humanitarian supplies and more NATO troops, but the Russians wouldn't agree to that until some of their concerns about the postwar environment were settled.

If the commander of the British forces had simply agreed to what Clark wanted as he should have, the Russians would never had a position to frustrate the postwar process like that. But, the British General disagreed and accused Clark of trying to start World War III, which I think is absurd. The Russian unit performing a mission in Bosnia had no authorization to leave nor did they have any authorization to enter into Kosovo by NATO.
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Old 09-22-2003, 06:30 PM   #37
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[Q]
The trouble with Wes
Robert Novak (back to web version) | Send


September 22, 2003


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The important Democrats eager to run retired Gen. Wesley Clark for president might exercise due diligence about a military career that was nearly terminated before he got his fourth star and then came to a premature end. The trouble with the general is pointed out by a bizarre incident in Bosnia nearly a decade ago.

Clark was a three-star (lieutenant general) who directed strategic plans and policy for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Washington. On Aug. 26, 1994, in the northern Bosnian city of Banja Luka, he met and exchanged gifts with the notorious Bosnian Serb commander and indicted war criminal, Gen. Ratko Mladic. The meeting took place against the State Department's wishes and may have contributed to Clark's failure to be promoted until political pressure intervened. The shocking photo of Mladic and Clark wearing each other's military caps was distributed throughout Europe.

Last week on CNN's "Crossfire," I asked one of Clark's new supporters -- Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois -- about that indiscretion. "Well, I don't know about the photo," he replied. He and other Clark backers, led by Rep. Charles Rangel of New York, might want to dig more deeply into the general's turbulent military career before getting too deeply committed.

For Emanuel, Rangel and other well-connected Democrats, Wes Clark seems a dream come true. He is walking the liberal line on taxes, abortion, racial quotas and Iraq. But he has military credentials and decorations that George W. Bush lacks. Even before formally announcing last week, Clark had 10 percent in Gallup's first national listing of him among presidential candidates and was just 6 percentage points behind the front-runner. Clark comes over on television as a square-jawed straight-shooter, not the stormy petrel that the Army knew during 34 years active duty -- including his conduct in the Banja Luka incident.

U.S. diplomats warned Clark not to go to Bosnian Serb military headquarters to meet Mladic, considered by U.S. intelligence as the mastermind of the Srebrenica massacre of Muslim civilians (and still at large, sought by NATO peacekeeping forces). Besides the exchange of hats, they drank wine together, and Mladic gave Clark a bottle of brandy and a pistol.

This was what U.S. Ambassador Richard Holbrooke's team seeking peace in Yugoslavia tried to avoid by instituting the "Clark Rule": whenever the general is found talking alone to a Serb, Croat or Muslim, make sure an American civilian official rushes to his side. It produced some comic opera dashes by diplomats.

After Clark's meeting with Mladic, the State Department cabled embassies throughout Europe that there was no change in policy toward the Bosnian Serbs. The incident cost Victor Jackovich his job as U.S. ambassador to Bosnia, even though he protested Clark's course. The upshot came months later, when Serbian dictator Slobodan Milosevic, in bitter negotiations with Holbrooke, handed Clark back his Army hat.

After such behavior, Clark was never on the promotion list to full general until he appealed to Defense Secretary William Perry and Gen. John Shalikashvili, chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He got his fourth star and became commander in chief of the Southern Command. His last post, as NATO supreme commander, found this infantry officer leading an air war against the Serbs over Kosovo. Clark argued with NATO colleagues by insisting on a ground troops option and complaining about the slowly graduated bombing campaign. He was pushed out abruptly by Defense Secretary William Cohen.

Since retiring in 2000, Clark has not been less contentious. Secretary of State Colin Powell was furious that a fellow four-star general in his CNN commentary would criticize U.S. strategy in Iraq, without much information and with the war barely underway. Clark attributed one comment to a Middle East "think tank" in Canada, although there appears to be no such organization. After claiming that the White House pressured CNN to fire him, Clark later said, "I've only heard rumors about it."

Nevertheless, liberals who gathered Thursday night at the Manhattan home of historian Arthur Schlesinger agreed that a general is just the right kind of candidate to oppose President Bush and that they never had seen any general so liberal as Wes Clark. They chose to ignore past performance, which may be cause for regret.



2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.[/Q]

The dirt will come out and Clark will make a nice VP before all this is said and done.
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Old 09-22-2003, 06:50 PM   #38
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Dreadsox,

I'm very surprised by this. Especially the picture taken with the Serb General Malidic in August 1994. Although a year before the massacre at Sebrenicia, everyone knew Malidic was one of the chief planners in the ethnic cleansing and Genocidal campaign that had been happening in Bosnia. Why would anyone outside of specific diplomatic negotiations want to meet with someone like this Serb General?
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Old 09-22-2003, 06:55 PM   #39
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He could have done worse. He could have said Strom Thurmond would have been a good president.
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Old 09-22-2003, 07:43 PM   #40
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If it is indeed true, he and Rumsfeld have something in common.
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Old 09-22-2003, 08:06 PM   #41
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Ratko Mladic is a war criminal who to this day walks free and sits, drinking coffee in a Belgrade cafe, while people I know, from the region of Srebrenica, including a 10 year old boy, lie in graves.

The thought of drinking and laughing with this animal makes me sick. I don't understand why there isn't more pressure to bring him and Karadzic in. There really is no justice left.
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Old 09-22-2003, 09:25 PM   #42
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Originally posted by anitram
Ratko Mladic is a war criminal who to this day walks free and sits, drinking coffee in a Belgrade cafe, while people I know, from the region of Srebrenica, including a 10 year old boy, lie in graves.

The thought of drinking and laughing with this animal makes me sick. I don't understand why there isn't more pressure to bring him and Karadzic in. There really is no justice left.
I couldn't agree more. Bust these criminals!!
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Old 09-22-2003, 11:20 PM   #43
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"If it is indeed true, he and Rumsfeld have something in common."

There is a big difference. Rumsfeld was in Baghdad in the 1980s because the US government were trying to prevent an Iranian victory in the Iran/Iraq war. I've not seen anything yet that says Clark's visit with Malidic was in some way directed by Washington or served some other political purpose or US interest. Until I read otherwise, this visit by Clark seems to be more for personal reasons which is bizarre.
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Old 09-22-2003, 11:21 PM   #44
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[Q]Clark's Source Revealed

Who says nothing worthwhile comes out of Canada? In an article in last Thursday's Toronto Star, reporter Tim Harper uncovered the identity of the man who supposedly called Wesley Clark on Sept. 11, 2001, urging him to go on CNN and blame Saddam Hussein for the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

Clark, you'll remember, told Tim Russert last June that the attempt to link Saddam and 9/11 "came from the White House, it came from people around the White House, it came from all over. I got a call on 9/11. I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'You've got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism.'"

Clark eventually admitted that he never received a call from the White House. Instead, he talked to "a man from a--of a Middle East think tank in Canada, the man who's the brother of a very close friend of mine in Belgium."
Clark's explanation threw THE SCRAPBOOK for a loop, because we couldn't locate a "Middle East think tank in Canada." But according to Harper, the man who called Clark was Thomas Hecht, who heads the one-man Montreal office for the Israel-based Begin-Sadat Centre for Strategic Studies.

So THE SCRAPBOOK was wrong to refer to the caller as Clark's "imaginary friend." Which is not to say Clark doesn't have an overactive imagination. The retired NATO commander melodramatically said he received the call on 9/11. Hecht says the call was "either Sept. 12 or Sept. 13." Clark said the call was evidence of a conspiracy to link Hussein to 9/11. Hecht says he called to invite the general to give a speech, and in the course of the conversation mentioned possible links between Saddam and international terrorist groups. Hecht, for his part, doesn't understand how his phone call became a central part of Clark's sordid tale of intrigue and corruption at the highest levels of government. "I don't know why I would be confused with the White House," Hecht said. "I don't even have white paint on my house." [/Q]


http://www.theweeklystandard.com/Con...3/134skcnf.asp

Let's see.....

White House attempted to get him fired.....No evidence
White House tried to get him to frame Saddam.....Lie
Middle East Thinktank.............Lie

This guy is definitely a Clinton type candidate.....

I would probably have voted for it......I mean definitely not....but maybe......
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Old 09-22-2003, 11:23 PM   #45
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[Q]Gen. Clark, Who Fraternized With Mladic, To Lead NATO

"New Republic" - April 21, 1997

Title:Clark's Expedition

Bill Clinton last week nominated General Wesley Clark to lead NATO and America's forces in Europe. If the president was trying to remind the public about the lack of seriousness with which his administration has taken war crimes in Bosnia, this is a fine choice. On August 27, 1994, Clark, then director of strategy, plans and policy for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went to Banja Luka - and met with Ratko Mladic, the bloodstained military leader of the Bosnian Serbs. (My note: everybody apparently forgets that before Serbia's the aggression in Bosnia the same Ratko Mladic was military commander of the Serbian army ("Yugoslav Peoples Army") in Croatia and conducted large scale massacres of Croatian civillians there, especially in the ethnically "cleansed of Croatian population "Krajina", another Serb-proclaimed "republic"). The State Departement had advised against the meeting, on account of Mladic's well-documented war crimes in Gorazde, Srebrenica and Sarajevo. Still, Clark and Mladic had a jolly time. Mladic gave Clark some plum brandy and a pistol with a Cyrillic inscription, and the two merrily swapped military hats. What do you do with a man with that kind of moral cluelessness? Promote him.[/Q]

http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~bosnia/a...sleyclark.html
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