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Old 08-01-2005, 07:34 AM   #46
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I was so happy when I saw the ad. Ive been using dove products for a while and Im proud of them!
Ive got a really poor self image, and part of what has fed into that (not the cause though) is the media.
The insecurities that are already there are just aggravated by seeing nothing but stick figures with no fat, muscle, freckles, or imperfections in the media.
When I look at that ad I dont feel like a cow
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Old 08-01-2005, 08:13 AM   #47
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u2bonogirl, I've seen your wedding pictures and of course the picture in your avatar. The genuine quality in which your posts are written say a lot about how you must be "in real life". You are a beautiful young woman inside and out, absolutely radiant, and your new husband is lucky to have you as his wife and I'm sure he knows that.

I understand at your age it can be difficult to shed whatever insecurities you have. I felt the same way you did for a long, long time. I don't think it is unusual for a lot of young women to feel the way you do. You are young still, there are still hints at teenaged awkwardness, and it takes a while to feel comfortable with who we are and how the world perceives us. No matter how much reinforcement we get from the people who love us. I know for me, it took a while for me to feel comfortable in my own skin - I probably didn't really start to feel comfortable with who I was until I was in my mid 20's, but that was just me. Coming to feel this way has been a gradual process, and I am happy with myself and wouldn't want to be any other way.

Personally I like the Dove ads, it's been a long time coming. it doesn't matter whether Dove are doing business, they know their market and they are wisely using it to their advantage. If ads like this boost a woman's self image, I don't see the problem. Not only do women need to see this kind of attainable normalcy in advertising, but men need to see it too.

Now if Victoria's Secret would get in on this marketing strategy, that would be revolutionary.
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Old 08-01-2005, 08:25 AM   #48
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thank you adams_mistress for the really kind post.
Its comforting to hear from other people that they felt the same way as me for a time and then grew out of it with age.
I think it will be helpful for young women to see something other than whats being advertized right now.Of course it would be a bad move for certain companys to start using "normal" looking women for their ads, but gosh, its so nice to look at an ad and not feel guilty for eating lunch afterwards
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Old 08-01-2005, 08:54 AM   #49
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I like this campaign too but I fear it won't make a bit of difference.
The amount of girls I knew in college that had some sort of eating disorder is staggering. And these are girls who ate right and worked out and were still judged to be fat/chubby/soft etc. Feeling hungry was a good thing.

I don't know how to fix/change this mentality. I know my own mother was always telling me to lose weight growing up. I was a competitive swimmer, worked out all the time and was never "skinny." I wasn't fat, mind you, but still. I know she meant well....but I have "issues" as a result.
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:18 AM   #50
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
I like this campaign too but I fear it won't make a bit of difference.
The amount of girls I knew in college that had some sort of eating disorder is staggering. And these are girls who ate right and worked out and were still judged to be fat/chubby/soft etc. Feeling hungry was a good thing.

I don't know how to fix/change this mentality. I know my own mother was always telling me to lose weight growing up. I was a competitive swimmer, worked out all the time and was never "skinny." I wasn't fat, mind you, but still. I know she meant well....but I have "issues" as a result.
Your post sort of gets at two key issues for me:

1) an eating disorder is a disease that focuses on control. Not eating, and being skinny, is incidental...just symptoms of a deeper problem. I have my sincere doubts that media portrayals of thin celebs and models are responsible for full-blown eating disorders, even though these media portrayals can be disturbing. However, disordered eating, I guess mimicking an eating disorder, is an entirely different matter and has much more to do with girls feeling fat and not good enough.

2) In my experience, parenting has been the most influential factor on how I view myself. My mom never really said anything one way or the other about how much I weighed or how I looked. I was raised to value things like honesty, integrity, accountability, and independence. I really don't care that I've gained 15 pounds since starting college, but if I ever lost my job(s) and had to move back home or ask my parents for financial help, I would feel like a total loser. It's just that I was raised so that my identity comes from my work and my schooling because my parents never cared how we looked or offered to buy us clothes, make-up, gym memberships, etc. I'm not saying one way is better than the other. I have my own issues, like, I feel like a total failure if I'm struggling to make rent or have to borrow money from my mom (in fact, I usually try my younger brother or sister first), but it's just how I was raised...to be independent and focus on being practical, not really getting into looks or even having time to think about it.

I know a LOT of girls whose moms would say things like "let's go on a diet together" or "we should start going to the gym together" or just plain say "I think you should lose wight". Maybe in some instances, the moms were just trying to practice what they preach and get their girls to be healthy, but a 14-18 year old girl reads a LOT into a statement like those. In some cases, I know the moms were just shallow and really did think their daughters weren't good enough and that sickens me.
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Old 08-01-2005, 07:32 PM   #51
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I think this mentality will go on as long as women continue to put the pressure and pass the cruellest pettiest judgements on each other. We are really our own worst enemies, at times.
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Old 08-02-2005, 09:43 AM   #52
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Originally posted by Saracene
We are really our own worst enemies, at times.
I agree, but I think many women pass cruel and petty judgments on themselves more so than on other women. I'm not discounting that women can be harsh on other women, that's certainly true.

How can you believe and appreciate compliments and positive reinforcement if you don't truly think and believe those things about yourself? Much of it also has to do w/ growing up and how your family values you, like LivLuv was saying. I think especially how males treat their daughters and sisters. It's easy to say "get over" all of that, it's easier said than done.
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Old 08-02-2005, 10:39 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
1) an eating disorder is a disease that focuses on control. Not eating, and being skinny, is incidental...just symptoms of a deeper problem. I have my sincere doubts that media portrayals of thin celebs and models are responsible for full-blown eating disorders, even though these media portrayals can be disturbing. However, disordered eating, I guess mimicking an eating disorder, is an entirely different matter and has much more to do with girls feeling fat and not good enough.
I agree. If eating disorders were simply caused by women wanting to be as thin as their favourite actress or supermodel then we wouldn't see people with eating disorders weighing far, far less than even the thinnest model. I don't doubt that the prevalence of very thin models and actresses contributes to a lot of women having an unhealthy attitude towards their weight and physical apperance (and, probably, to women resorting to unhealthy diets), but I honestly don't believe that it causes someone to have an eating disorder in the absence of other factors which cause eating disorders.
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Old 08-02-2005, 11:08 AM   #54
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I agree with eating disorders being about control. When I had one I freely admitted that the number one reason I was doing it to myself was because I liked having control of something in my life. Incidentally I also have a poor self image so it all bled together, but I really liked the feeling of causing something to change by sheer will.
That and it was a cry for help. I thought that if somebody saw me wasting away they would realize that there was something terribly wrong.
So, I agree, its not just seeing models that make girls go nutty. Its not being strong enough emotionally to feel good about themselves or otherwise
But for a girl that already feels like she is dirt, seeing somebody pretty and shiny is just a boot in the ass
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Old 08-02-2005, 02:40 PM   #55
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


We're an image conscious species, I think you'll find the most "beautiful" people often find themselves thinking they too need to change certain aspects of their appearance.

I think when it comes to our physical image it needs to be about health more than anything.

I think we have two extremes going on here in America. We have those that are starving themselves in order to be the skinniest they can be. But we also have many who are trying to make unhealthy obesity considered "normal".

Great point. None of the two extremes are good. Sometimes we focused too much on criticizing skinny girls as trying to 'show off' while we let obese ones go by. Obesity is not healthy and I am hoping that this campaign does not get twisted into justifying this.
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Old 08-02-2005, 02:42 PM   #56
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i saw those pics here in canada somewhere, beli. i remember seeing the woman with the freckles and i thought of you.


I saw those pics in one of the Canadian mags too
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Old 08-02-2005, 02:43 PM   #57
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
I agree. If eating disorders were simply caused by women wanting to be as thin as their favourite actress or supermodel then we wouldn't see people with eating disorders weighing far, far less than even the thinnest model. I don't doubt that the prevalence of very thin models and actresses contributes to a lot of women having an unhealthy attitude towards their weight and physical apperance (and, probably, to women resorting to unhealthy diets), but I honestly don't believe that it causes someone to have an eating disorder in the absence of other factors which cause eating disorders.
Exactly. Hell, women can get self-conscious about their appearance just from seeing a nice-looking girl at the beach. There's lots of triggers out there, it's just up to each women to realize that they have many good things to offer and to not go with what everyone else thinks is the look of the year. Just because they think that doesn't mean you have to agree.

Angela
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Old 08-02-2005, 03:29 PM   #58
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While I agree that control issues play a role in eating disorders you can not discount the the drive for perfection as a cause as well. Peer or self pressure to be perfect can influence girls in uhhealthy ways.

I just don't buy that :
Quote:
1) an eating disorder is a disease that focuses on control. Not eating, and being skinny, is incidental...just symptoms of a deeper problem. I have my sincere doubts that media portrayals of thin celebs and models are responsible for full-blown eating disorders, even though these media portrayals can be disturbing.
This is not what the research I have read states. There are many factors that can contribute to an eating disorder and cultural pressure and genetic predispositon are among them. Being skinny can most certainly be a desired effect. (this may be a reason why eating disorders run high in sororities, dance, theater, etc)
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Old 08-02-2005, 05:46 PM   #59
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
While I agree that control issues play a role in eating disorders you can not discount the the drive for perfection as a cause as well. Peer or self pressure to be perfect can influence girls in uhhealthy ways.

I just don't buy that :

This is not what the research I have read states. There are many factors that can contribute to an eating disorder and cultural pressure and genetic predispositon are among them. Being skinny can most certainly be a desired effect. (this may be a reason why eating disorders run high in sororities, dance, theater, etc)
I'm not trying to be rude or pick a fight or anything, but I have to say my research has suggested a different correlation altogether. There's so many random articles out there that just talk about eating disorders on one hand and then thin celebs and model on the other and the writers assume there is causation without ever looking deeper into the psychology and psychiatry of girls with clinically diagnosed EDs. I've been obsessed with gymnastics since I was very young so eating disorders are always something that hangs over my head. I actually wrote a huge research paper on this issue for a class last year and found a lot of studies that suggested that the types of personalities of girls who go far with sports like gymnastics and advanced dance are a much, much bigger factor in being prone to eating disorders than just wanting to be thin. What the general public often forgets is that correlation does not prove causation. Yes, gymnasts and dancers are small and thin (mostly dancers), but that is not the root cause of the eating disorder. For my paper I also did a HUGE polling of upper level gymnasts from all over the world and of the ones that had been hospitalized for an ED or treated in some other way for having an ED for years, they all told me their EDs were not about being thin but about having some control or having deeper issues like depression. Some would tell me about their coaches hinting for them to lose weight, but in the end they only did it to get a reaction from everyone and receive praise from the coach. They didn't care that they were thin, but that the coach's attitude towards them changed because of something THEY did, some aspect of their life that THEY were able to control and manipulate to their advantage.

So basically, I'm convinced eating disorders are not really about looks at all. Say I said to a friend she would look better if she lost a few pounds, but she went out of control and developed full blown anorexia. I would understand her response NOT as wanting to be thinner b/c that's what I and other want, but that she is able to change her behavior in a way that elicits a positive response from me and others. Looking at it this way, you can see that thinness and looks become incidental.

I've also never met someone with a full blown ED that would blame it on the media or how our culture prefers women. I HAVE met a LOT of women who practice unhealthy, disordered eating habits that would say so, but that's more of a self-confidence issue and not the disease that is a clinically diagnosed ED.
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Old 08-02-2005, 07:39 PM   #60
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I agree that one of the biggest misconceptions about ED's is that they are caused by simply wanting to be thin and not because of control issues.

My question is about women who are bone thin and look in the mirror and see a fat person. Women you see on TV who look like walking skeletons and yet still think they are fat. This must be some kind of mental disorder as well...would that qualify as anorexia or is it a different kind of mental problem or a bit of both?
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