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Old 07-31-2005, 09:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I think we have two extremes going on here in America. We have those that are starving themselves in order to be the skinniest they can be. But we also have many who are trying to make unhealthy obesity considered "normal".
Totally agree. While I love this ad I don't want to see "normal" women in ads if "normal" is someone who is overweight and unhealthy, that just sets a bad example. Americans on average are getting more and more obese and just because that is the new norm does not mean we should accept that as okay. This ad is effective because the women all look healthy and fit for their body type.
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Old 07-31-2005, 11:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I think we have two extremes going on here in America. We have those that are starving themselves in order to be the skinniest they can be. But we also have many who are trying to make unhealthy obesity considered "normal".
BINGO!!!

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Old 07-31-2005, 11:49 PM   #33
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Re: Dove Campaign For Real Beauty

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
The women of Japan have the highest levels of dissatisfaction at 59 percent


That's not right...(edit - as in "Japanese women are hot")
I wonder why that is, must be something cultural. Aren't a lot of super models from Brazil, too? No offense to the USA, but traditional definition of beauty has been scarred too much, and a lot of what America calls beautiful I find unatractive or disgusting. And as far as Japan goes, they've got some of the best looking women in the world. Aren't they really healthy over there, too, as a culture in Japan?
(pardon my simplistic thought process here)
I wonder if there is a relationoship with being concerned with health, and their thoughts about beauty. A lot of women, here in the US, are concerned with beauty, but don't give a rat's ass about health. And then they wonder why they look the way I do.

Natural is beatiful
But healthy is beautiful

Someone who takes the time to make healthy decisions and watches their weight shows me there are a considerate and caring person. I could go on and on about that, but I won't


I know someone who is obese, and I can't bear to watch them eat. He's killing himself with food......

And that's not beautiful

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Old 08-01-2005, 12:01 AM   #34
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Re: Re: Dove Campaign For Real Beauty

Quote:
Originally posted by For Honor


Someone who takes the time to make healthy decisions and watches their weight shows me there are a considerate and caring person. I could go on and on about that, but I won't.


Not getting into the other points of this interesting thread, but what is this correlation? Go on a little more about it.
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Old 08-01-2005, 01:25 AM   #35
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Re: Re: Re: Dove Campaign For Real Beauty

Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
Not getting into the other points of this interesting thread, but what is this correlation? Go on a little more about it.

Now, this is only personally speaking.
I repeat - only talking about myself here.


You cannot ever judge a book by it's cover. I know and accept that, and I'm sure everyone has at least heard that saying before.

But the point I see, is this - if someone takes part in an healthy life style- exercise, eating right, healthy decisions about alcohal and other drugs, about who they associate with, about various things

such a person, say, as a woman - I'd look at that woman (considering she had a number of other traits that I find attractive/beneficial) and say - "Hey, she has a lot of good character traits". And for me, that would make me a whole lot more interested in the woman. And as a potential wife (perhaps), I'd think about how she would pass on those traits for our children, and even, how those traits that she has would influence our kids.

Personally speaking, I can't date anyone who indulges in drugs. I mean, I respect peoples' freedoms. But I have my freedom as to waht I want to be exposed to, too. And I've been exposed to a lot already in my life. I always listen to people, but when it comes to who I involve deeply in my life, I'm really selective. And time and time again, in my life, for me, it has been proven that you really do have to be careful about who you let into your deepest inner circle. Again, this is in regards to my own feelings about things.

---

Now, let me get back on track, more so.



"Someone who takes the time to make healthy decisions and watches their weight shows me (they are) a considerate and caring person. I could go on and on about that, but I won't."

Well, now I will.


This isn't a blanket statement. It is one observation I make, along with many others, to try to understand a person.

First, let's look at the opposite.
Someone who does not make healthy decisions nor watches their weight.

On a "first glance" level, that is ugly to me.
(Not superficial, not just looks, but more than that. First glance, as in, overall initial impression, how one presents themselves to me). If you do not care enough about yourself to make healthy decisions - how can you make healthy decisions for me/involving me?

(conceited? Perhaps. But hey, that's a priority in my life. For me, I despise being unhealty and indulging in physically harmful things. But that;s me, and I only speak for myself in this thread)

It may indicate that you are lazy. Maybe it just isn't that high a priority to watch out for yourself, or maybe you like to sit around all day and watch TV or read or something. Again, not attractive for me. I'm the biggest homebody in the world, but I am always watching what I eat, and make an effort to stay in shape.

Sometimes it shows how one gives into instant gratification. For those people who eat "because if feels good" or get high on drugs "because it feels good" or because they want an escape, then you have no pity from me. Now, there are people who get high and manage themselves fine. That's great, but that's great for them, and not for me.

I may come off as being a bit stuck up or something, but that's fine with me. I have my standards and stuff, and that's just me. I don't impose them upon any one else, unless they ask me to. I spend a lot of time observing people...

---------------------------------------------

Now, you could say someone who spends hours at the gym is obsessed with looks and themselves. Conceited, and only care about how they look, or who they can impress. Sure, that may be the case. You could say a number of things - - someone who has an eating disorder - sure, I wouldn't want them to pass on their huge fascination with weight, or unhealthy lifestyle to my kids. BUt that's just it, I wouldn't substitute a rockin bod for someone who destroys themself for it.

But like I said, weight apperance is one in many tools to define a person. It's a peice to the puzzle that they are, or are not.



And, one of my last comments -
I find women beautiful.
And the same thing I find unattractive for women are what I find repelling for men - I do not have double standards

I don't really care the size of a woman to determine overal "potential" or attractiveness. (in reality, I believe being good looking is an advantage, though. But when it comes to me, I have lots of stories about how looks don't mean that much to me. But I'll save those for later). I have preferences, as all men do. If you can't accept that, then you don't live in the real world. But I'm sure everyone understands how that goes. For me, preferences are one thing, but preferences are luxuries. My neccesities are what I go by, and I understand also that there is no perfect woman, nor do I expect one, because I sure as hell am not perfect. I have no problem stating that. But I try to be flexible about things to - compromise ("it's not a dirty word").


True beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder. There is no universal definition of beauty - I am remembering victorian era paintings of women (crudely) that one might call whales these days.

But anyway, the soul of anything is the most important as far as I go. I know someone who isn't incredibly smart, nor has the ideal body. But she has a wonderful, amazing soul, and if she were younger, (she's 40 and I'm 18), and things were different, I would actually consider marring her. Her heart and soul are some of the purest I've ever seen, and the way she expresses her love is amazing.

Also on my neccesity list - values and morals. The lady above has both, and huge amounts of them.

I like people who know how to use their minds, and like to keep themselved informed, but inteligence is felixible.



But.... can you see a correlation - values to lifestlye to physical health?

There are a number of webs to draw it, relate physical well being to caring and consideration. You can relate it to other things, too. But it is just one small indicator, and not a key factor, for me anyway.

- - - - -

Ending with a tangent.............

I think the female body is one of the most beautiful things in the world, if not the most. The sun and the moon and stars and the sky are tops, along with nature. And women are naturally beautiful, so they are all related a little.

Regardless, the most beautiful thing to me is seeing a woman smile. More so, a woman who is smiling purely, genuienly, because she is pleased.

And that almost isn't a physical thing.
You can see it in anyone, male or female, in their eyes.


==========
==========
==========
Okay, I guess I got a little carried away there....

To conclude:

Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
Not getting into the other points of this interesting thread, but what is this correlation? Go on a little more about it.
Someone who takes care of themselves is more capable of taking care of others than someone who does not take care of themselves.

If you want me to answer the question:
"How does staying physically fit relate to being a caring and considerate person towards others?"

It doesn't.
Like I said, someone's weight and physical apperance is only one factor in many I use when understanding/observing a person).

It may show that the person is considerate in regards to themselves, as opposed to someone who doesn't care and eats sweets all day long just because they taste good, etc.
It may reveal that someone cares about themselves if they take the time to stay fit, and that may directly or indirectly influence others to share a similar healthy lifestyle. As in, if someone eats healthy foods, that person may be inclined to encourage healthy food eating to others.


one of the best examples I've got is considering a spouse.
I mean, really - would you want your spouse to promote a lot of unhealthy activities? You are what you do. And yeah, some of this may be harsh, but I don't have any double standards. And, it's me, and not anyone else, which I accept.



If my fiancee gained a lot of weight months before our marriage, would I reconsider?

No way in hell.

If I would consider marrying someone, I must have seen a beautiful soul. A loving, beautiful person from the inside out. And she would know that I'd be there no matter what, since that is another personality trait of mine.

Would I divorce someone over weight issues?

No way in hell
But I would sure be with them everystep of the way until she got her weight back down to a safe and healthy number. I prefer to live healthy and such, and whoever would be my wife would certainly know this, and probably expect me to support them in maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Hopefully, that would be one of the reasons she married me, how I feel about things like this.

But that is how I work. One thing is related, or even dependant upon another. It's pretty mercenary, but...
I'm at least honest.


PS - wow, that reminds me of a long time ago, when I would get into serious debates about things on another website... this is the longest post I've written in years...
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Old 08-01-2005, 01:48 AM   #36
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Thank you. I was curious about your personal correlation and you explained it well.
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:07 AM   #37
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I definitely agree that beauty is more than just physical appearance... but I don't really see how you can press that point with a campaign that doesn't show you anything about the women except their physical appearances - and rather attractive appearances, too, if not exactly super-modelish.
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:15 AM   #38
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The big reason I don't read fashion-related magazines is because I'm just not one who tends to fuss over my own appearance much, so I don't have much use for them to begin with.

But I merely take this debateable issue like this: if the images presented bother you, don't read the magazine. Put it back on the shelf, toss it, stuff like that, and walk away. Or, go ahead and suggest seeing people of all kinds of shapes and sizes in there-variety is indeed always a good thing, no denying that, but at the same time, don't make it seem like a crime if skinny people are in there, too (it just seems sometimes with some people who complain that that's the case. Even if that's not how they intend on coming across, that's how it sounds to me sometimes).

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Old 08-01-2005, 02:34 AM   #39
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Sure, no problem.

I.... have a....
bit of an addiction to explaining things,
It's good to... release it once in a while
========================================


Out of all the people I see on a regular basis, a lot of them aren't health conscious at all. Maybe 1/3 are semi-aware of things.

ANd I'm no specialist, really. But I at least make an effort.


But America will always be the media's hunting ground as long as we support commercials for super good fitting jeans AND Big Macs. You can't have both, really.

Which one is easier?

a few bucks for a burger
Or a few hours in the gym?

It's not that hard to see why America is so fat.

=================================


BUt also, there is a bigger size woman that I really like.
She isn't "hot" by "us teenager's" standards. BUt she is a great, phenominal person who is gaurenteed success later in life - she's got tremendous work ethic, and gets it from her father, who is really well off.

She could have slacked off her whole life
She could have not even done well in school and not tried
But she did, and she is the kind of person who will always give that effort in life

I like that a lot, and always want to maintain our relationship. She's a rare person, or at least, rare in the people I know.
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:39 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saracene
I definitely agree that beauty is more than just physical appearance... but I don't really see how you can press that point with a campaign that doesn't show you anything about the women except their physical appearances - and rather attractive appearances, too, if not exactly super-modelish.

Great point... and while they are pushing a good issue.......


There's nothing quite like taking on the role as a do-gooder to increase those sales, baby Dove - they are concerned about women..... and their money, too




But on the whole, I do think that it is an issue worthy of discussion
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Old 08-01-2005, 03:10 AM   #41
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The ad has different models in the USA. On the English ads theres a whitey white pale girl with - the ultimate sin - freckles. Why no freckles in the USA?

PS I'm still really pleased this campaign is happening. Just a little miffed that my personal "group" has been deleted from the USA campaign.
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Old 08-01-2005, 03:22 AM   #42
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They've also deleted the
- older woman with wrinkles
- woman with grey hair

Im trying to save the pics at the moment.....
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Old 08-01-2005, 03:31 AM   #43
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The UK models.
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Old 08-01-2005, 06:20 AM   #44
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i saw those pics here in canada somewhere, beli. i remember seeing the woman with the freckles and i thought of you.

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Old 08-01-2005, 06:52 AM   #45
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Those pics are still used in the US beli...several magazines have a tri-fold ad with the complete series of pics, which includes the freckled woman, the older woman, etc. They are only excluded in the one page ads.
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