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Old 01-17-2005, 10:52 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
OK, looks like you just lost an opportunity to set the record straight about why the OT is NOT flawed, that's what happens when you get called on cherry-picking out-of-context verses to buttress a pre-existing opinion I guess.
Oh, grow up. There are multiple ideas running in this thread. Do I need your permission to respond to those as well?

Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
The due process is flawed, many people executed have been found innocent years after thei rexecution.

Unless you can come up with a foolproof due process system, that argument is severely flawed.

Also, it is NOT a deterrent, so basically you are saying we have an ineffective institutionalized method of killing innocent people. Great..........
Your logic is atrocious.

By these standards (a foolproof due process system), no one would be prosecuted.

If you want to label Capital Punishment as an institutionalized method of killing innocent people, we have no room for discussion.
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:54 AM   #122
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
No, I kind of want to see cardosino's question about the other OT verses answered.
Do I take the seriously?

Do you want to bog down this thread, or do you want me to start new threads, or do you want a PM as well?
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:55 AM   #123
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Whatever you want. And I am serious.

Starting a new thread is probably the best idea.
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:58 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


.

By these standards (a foolproof due process system), no one would be prosecuted.

I don't think this is so. Other forms of punishment can be revoked, reversed, or cut short if a mistake in prosecution is made. This, obviously, cannot happen once the death penalty is administered.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:01 AM   #125
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
Whatever you want. And I am serious.

Starting a new thread is probably the best idea.
OK. I'd ask that you read the questions for yourself and determine if they are serious inquires or satiracal statements designed to lampoon Scripture.

I will address each verse stated in the "Letter". There are about 12 verses to cover, so I will put it all together in one thread.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:03 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora


I don't think this is so. Other forms of punishment can be revoked, reversed, or cut short if a mistake in prosecution is made. This, obviously, cannot happen once the death penalty is administered.
a bit of rationality

Why all the blood lust?
behind the argument of religion, Jesus, god or justice?



Where is the danger in a life sentence?
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:05 AM   #127
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They are satirical questions, bur I've always wanted to know if, say, my brother is ritually unclean if he gives me a hug while I'm having my period.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:15 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Oh, grow up. There are multiple ideas running in this thread. Do I need your permission to respond to those as well?





Your logic is atrocious.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

By these standards (a foolproof due process system), no one would be prosecuted.

Well, a flawed system putting someone away for life always leaves the door open that said person will one day see the light of day if new evidence is found.

The Death penalty offers no such possibility. Such a primeval thirst for blood and vengeance,........

QUOTE]Originally posted by nbcrusader

If you want to label Capital Punishment as an institutionalized method of killing innocent people, we have no room for discussion.
[/QUOTE]

Well, it appears you don't want to accept that killing innocent people is wrong.....so be it.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:18 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
They are satirical questions, bur I've always wanted to know if, say, my brother is ritually unclean if he gives me a hug while I'm having my period.

Is this a satirical question? We know it is ridiculous.

This was written at a different time, for a different people, with different hygiene capabilities. Without living at those times can we truly understand it?

The same for animal sacrifice.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:43 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino

Well, it appears you don't want to accept that killing innocent people is wrong.....so be it.
Please take this game elsewhere. You make conclussions about my statements and then rely on your own conclusions to back them up.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:57 AM   #131
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Where is the danger in a life sentence?
Where is the danger in the death penalty?


Two questions.

Each deserve an answer.
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:12 PM   #132
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Well let's see..

I think the reason the death penalty is ineffective in terms of deterring people from murder is due to the penalty itself not being carried out to its fullest extent. There are far to many people who have been convicted of murder (where there is absolutely no question as to whether or not they did it) that do not receive a death sentence. Which leads me to this ...

If there is absolutely no question as to the guilt of the people involved, say for instance someone that was there when it happened and in an extreme case they themselves were left for dead yet miraculously they survive, and they are able to identify the people responsible then yeh, certainly, the people responsible should be put to death.

Ironically, when I hear of people being put to death by the state, the first thought I have isn't "good, one less worthless scumbag society has to deal with". Remember when Timothy McVee was executed? I mean he was a complete wanker and was responsible for such a horrible thing, but when it was reported on the news the moment he died, my heart sank. Its weird. When I hear of people being put to death by the state, it saddens me. On the other hand I do see it as the just means by which to deal with murderers.

I guess overall it saddens me that we live in a society where people do murder and even have a need for the death penalty but then, this ain't the Garden of Eden anymore.
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:18 PM   #133
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Oh and the thing about Jesus and turning the other cheek etc. I do not think Jesus advocated pacifism amoungst His disciples.

There are a few verses where He told His disciples to buy swords etc. Also, in the garden when the soilders came to arrest Jesus, Peter was armed. He cut a soilders ear off with his sword (or knife or something).

At any rate, if people in Jesus' own posse carried weapons, that would lead me to believe Jesus did not discourage self-defense.

But I guess that would be another thread... probably a second ammendment debate or something.
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:28 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic
Also, in the garden when the soilders came to arrest Jesus, Peter was armed. He cut a soilders ear off with his sword (or knife or something).

At any rate, if people in Jesus' own posse carried weapons, that would lead me to believe Jesus did not discourage self-defense.
And what did Jesus do to the soldier missing an ear?

Self defense and capital punishment are two entirely different things.
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:28 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino


So it's OK to take one verse and use it to fuel right-wing hate mongering towards homosexuals (whom Jesus would embrace in a heartbeat), but when other verses are pointed then it's "over simplifying", or it's "politics", or it's "infantile" ?

I had to address this because there is a lot of misconception on the subject of "what would Jesus do?" It's difficult to answer that question under every circumstance, so I don't ask it when dealing with politics.

I'll tell you what Jesus DID. Yes, he hung out with the lowest of the low of the society of that time. Yes, he admonished the rich and the church leaders for judging the sinners when they were sinners themselves. But he didn't stop there.

Jesus acknowledged the prostitutes and thieves were sinners. He didn't judge them. They repented, he forgave them and then....... this is the part everyone seems to forget....... he said, "GO FORTH AND SIN NO MORE".

Now I believe there are Christians that feel homosexual acts as well as premarital sex are sinful because of Biblical teaching. These same people, in their defense, are capable of loving their neighbor and at the same time praying they would discontinue specific actions for their own sake.

I don't believe it is proper to label such people as "right wing hate mongers." To do so is judging their hearts.

At the same time, there is a political battle of ideas going on which has to be separated from the personal.

So I might have many homosexual friends and relatives but still beileve that gay marriage is not in the best interest of the country, for example.

labeling people "hate mongers" and "racist" is a tactic of the left
that serves no purpose in the debate
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