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Old 06-30-2007, 07:32 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02
IF you fly the english flag your deamed a racist.
When you say "the English flag" do you mean the St. George's Cross?
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:40 PM   #62
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oh i love my country , it has no borders , or certain flag , i'm a forever foreign man , stuck between cultures , between religions , i like the whole globe .
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:27 AM   #63
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I can't say for sure...

I think I live in a really great country. Yeah, it has its problems, but I think overall America is a spectacular country. Still, I never really felt a huge amunt of patriotism. I love the people here as a whole, but I'm not so sure that has anything to do with the fact that they're American.

I'll most likely never have a chance to die for my country anyways. I've had head problems and I doubt I would ever be drafted (unless things got REALLY bad). I'd probably be sitting on the sidelines.

Anyways, if I said I love my country it's probably because I love the life I've become used to and I generally love America's people. Maybe that means I do love my country... or I just love people. I'd most likely risk my life for them if it was needed.

I never realized there were so many Australians here.
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:34 AM   #64
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I'll add that I have the utmost respct for those who died protecting our country. To me that's the most respectable thing any human could ever do for me. I feel a sense of personal gratitude to these people.

I kind of get the feeling that this board lacks the attitude that they'd fight for much. A lot of you (not singling out anyone, although you probably know who you are) seem to be the type of people who would run away and hide if you and the people around you were in danger instead of uniting and fghting back for a cause. I don't respect that attitude ONE BIT.
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:57 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780

I kind of get the feeling that this board lacks the attitude that they'd fight for much. A lot of you (not singling out anyone, although you probably know who you are) seem to be the type of people who would run away and hide if you and the people around you were in danger instead of uniting and fghting back for a cause. I don't respect that attitude ONE BIT.
It's funny you mention that, for there are those that support a troop surge and are of age yet refuse to enlist, right here in this very board...

I also find it funny that people equate Iraq with a threat to freedom...

You were fed lies, and you fell for them hook, line, and sinker...
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:43 AM   #66
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First of all, I couldn't enlist even if I wanted to, due to health problems. Second, if I could enlist I don't feel that it would be my calling to fight for the US under the current situation. I don't feel like going to Iraq because I don't feel like it would do any good. I'm not a supporter of any big troop surges and I disagree with those who are.

If our country was being invaded I would probably feel much differently. Of course it's hard to say how I'd feel then, but I definitely wouldn't run to Canada or anything. I hate the attitude that some people have about their country where they'll let the government support them, but as soon as the government calls on them to fight for the freedoms they've been given they just pack their bags and jet. It's selfish and cowardly.

And why are you bringing Iraq into this in the first place? Don't assume that because I'd be willing to stand up and fight I also support our actions in the Middle East. For speaking so poorly of those who generalize you sure like to do it with me.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:28 AM   #67
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You should never assume from what people post or say in a situation of comfort, that this would be a safe indicator for their actions in a situation of need.

People speaking of how bravely they would defend their loved ones may be the first to be on the run, and vice versa. You can't predict one's behaviour when it comes to terms.

And I think one shouldn't judge people only because they are not that willing to defend their countries in any situation.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:33 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

When you say "the English flag" do you mean the St. George's Cross?
Apparently some people might be offended by it due to its links to the Crusades. And the Union Flag of the UK doesn't fair much better either as it has been associated with extreme right wing groups for decades. I have vague memories that at one time the phrase "We need to reclaim our flag from the racists" was banded about a lot but the in thing now in the media seems to be to start playing down the Britishness and emphasizing your individual nationality (especially if you're English, the rest of them lot in the UK have been doing this for years but we've only just caught on ).
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:55 AM   #69
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^Every Scot, and every Welsh person would say they are Welsh or Scottish before British, so why not the English just be English.....being British is kind of a nothingness....there is no British culture or British language, there is a definable Scottish/Welsh/English heritage and cultures.
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:47 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by LJT
^Every Scot, and every Welsh person would say they are Welsh or Scottish before British, so why not the English just be English.....being British is kind of a nothingness....there is no British culture or British language, there is a definable Scottish/Welsh/English heritage and cultures.
Yeah but Wales and Scotland have all the cool stuff like Welsh and Braveheart. What does England have? Bloody Morris dancers!

Seriously though I think Scotland and Wales have that slight advantage in that the Celtic ties are stronger. In England everything is such a mishmash. You have the Vikings here in Yorkshire and the North-East, the Anglo-Saxons in the Midlands and the Celtic fringe in the South-West. So although we do have a shared English culture, it doesn't seem as legitimate as our neighbours because it doesn't go back as far as them (if that makes sense?).

But I also think you're right. I think it would be good for England to start taking more pride in itself- especially in the era of devolution.
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Old 07-01-2007, 11:38 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780

I kind of get the feeling that this board lacks the attitude that they'd fight for much. A lot of you (not singling out anyone, although you probably know who you are) seem to be the type of people who would run away and hide if you and the people around you were in danger instead of uniting and fghting back for a cause. I don't respect that attitude ONE BIT.
Get over yourself.

Unlike almost everyone on this board, I actually lived through a war and all the wonderful fun of being SHOT at and knowing people who were blown to smitherines. You have no fucking clue what that's like or what it's like to have to live the rest of your life with those memories and coping.

I don't need somebody like you respecting my views. I actually had that worded a lot more colourfully the first time, but for the sake of civility, toned it down.
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Old 07-01-2007, 02:04 PM   #72
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well, this is getting nasty ....


can we just get along ...?

we are the world
we are the children ......


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Old 07-01-2007, 02:49 PM   #73
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Originally posted by anitram


Get over yourself.

Unlike almost everyone on this board, I actually lived through a war and all the wonderful fun of being SHOT at and knowing people who were blown to smitherines. You have no fucking clue what that's like or what it's like to have to live the rest of your life with those memories and coping.

I don't need somebody like you respecting my views. I actually had that worded a lot more colourfully the first time, but for the sake of civility, toned it down.
Of course I don't know exactly how I'd react in the time of war. I can only go one how I feel at the moment, just like just about everyone else in this discussion. I'm not talking about civilians running. I'm not saying they should grab knives and forks and fight back. I'm saying that if the country that supports you asks for your help defending your own country's people it would be honorable to fight.

Maybe we should only let those who have lived through a war participate in this discussion then? If no one else's view is relevant.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:55 PM   #74
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Quote:
I'm saying that if the country that supports you asks for your help defending your own country's people it would be honorable to fight.
And then if you do the supposedly dishonourable thing and refuse then you can be chucked in jail, blind patriotism lets people be abused by governments and in the instances your alluding to it's done with conscription.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:36 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
I'm saying that if the country that supports you asks for your help defending your own country's people it would be honorable to fight.
This just goes to show you have no concept of what war time is actually like.

My father chose to leave and not fight. In fact, he essentially fled the country overnight, because he could see where things were going. Many of his friends and other people like you called him a coward and said he did not honour his duty. Those same friends were drafted and participated in what any civilized society would consider to be war crimes. Yes, many of them were honourable in defending their homes. And many raped and pillaged.

He decided that independence wasn't worth shooting his neighbour in the head and then raping his wife.

You think war time is men defending property and their women and children...what a joke.
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