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Old 06-01-2007, 02:16 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Smallville


It is being diluted, that's exactly what's wrong with our country right now.


white makes right?
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:18 PM   #17
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Originally posted by anitram

I'm perfectly qualified to make a chicken satay.

i hear you.

i make a killer Lamb Vindaloo. it's much better than my Swedish meatballs.
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Old 06-01-2007, 03:33 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Irvine511




white makes right?
Twist it anyway you'd like, that's not what I said.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smallville


Twist it anyway you'd like, that's not what I said.


you agreed that the American identity of 50 years ago -- which was loosely paraphrased as the whole mom and apple pie and main street -- was being diluted, and that this was one of the biggest problems today.

to me, the America of 50 years ago was very white, very protestant, and had little room for anyone who deviated from certain established norms.

what do you think?
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
to me, the America of 50 years ago was very white, very protestant, and had little room for anyone who deviated from certain established norms.
And more at ease with itself?
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:47 PM   #21
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And more at ease with itself?


for many.

there are lots of people who would prefer a return to such an era. 'twas simpler. men were men, etc.
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:51 PM   #22
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I think the disappearing American identity has everything to do with family structure changing.

What was the divorce rate 50 years ago compared to today? The percentage of unwed mothers? Did mom have a fulltime job 50 years ago, or was she a homemaker who had a sitdown dinner waiting for the family every night?
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:52 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Bluer White
Did mom have a fulltime job 50 years ago, or was she a homemaker who had a sitdown dinner waiting for the family every night?


Sorry that we're no longer willing to be barefoot and pregnant.
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bluer White
I think the disappearing American identity has everything to do with family structure changing.

What was the divorce rate 50 years ago compared to today? The percentage of unwed mothers? Did mom have a fulltime job 50 years ago, or was she a homemaker who had a sitdown dinner waiting for the family every night?
Tut tut, you're portraying the liberal agenda in a bad light.
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Old 06-01-2007, 07:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Tut tut, you're portraying the liberal agenda in a bad light.
I blame Elvis.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bluer White
I think the disappearing American identity has everything to do with family structure changing.

What was the divorce rate 50 years ago compared to today? The percentage of unwed mothers? Did mom have a fulltime job 50 years ago, or was she a homemaker who had a sitdown dinner waiting for the family every night?
And this was what I was trying to get at. This country once had families that actually raised their own kids, religion wasn't the butt end of a joke, and sex wasn't a common thing for 12 year olds.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:58 PM   #27
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Smallville, Bluer White, and Financeguy -- Both my mother and maternal grandmother held full time jobs at least part of the time they were raising children (my grandmother almost the entire time because her well off, respectable, conservative husband decided he didn't want to be married and divorced her and didn't give a crap enough about his responsibilities to do one damned thing to help support his daughter). My mother was born in 1927; my grandmother was born in 1910 -- both well within your "glorious good old days" time frame. Plenty of bad shit happened back then and many families were miserable. You'd do better to remove your rose coloured glasses when you look back.
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:16 PM   #28
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originally posted by Smallville
And this was what I was trying to get at. This country once had families that actually raised their own kids, religion wasn't the butt end of a joke, and sex wasn't a common thing for 12 year olds.
Those things did happen back in the 1950s. They were just kept in the closet and were hush-hushed because it would've "ruined" society. There were a lot of things going around that happen today: single mothers, affairs, illegitimate children, you name it.

Anything that could not be kept hushed, was quickly covered up. For example, if a young woman got pregnant, she had to marry the guy who impregnanted her in order to legitimatize her kid. That meant she was stuck in a miserable marriage. That doesn't sound very ideal.

How is religion the butt end of a joke? Do you think it is because some people are disillusioned with organized religion?

And sex is not that common among pre-teens. You make it sound like every 12 year old is doing it.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smallville


And this was what I was trying to get at. This country once had families that actually raised their own kids, religion wasn't the butt end of a joke, and sex wasn't a common thing for 12 year olds.


and how many families had two miserable people because divorce was socially unacceptable -- sure, he drinks and hits you, but you don't have a job, and it's probably your fault, so stick with him. it's easier. no interracial families. no interreligious families. no gay (!!!) people raising children.

while we can all agree that stable intact families are a good thing, it's false to think that the destabilization of the family -- a contested notion, btw -- is directly do to things such as the civil rights movement, feminism, religious plurality, etc. stable families don't come from a utopian ideal of white christians in the suburbs having pot roast ready for the kids after church on sunday. stable families come from people who are happy, willing and enthusiastic partners dedicated to raising a family. it knows no color, religion, or sexual orientation. it DOES know how important it is for women to have full freedom to choose -- and to choose to have a career, or not, or both, or balance the two, or find a different way; for men to choose -- to stay at home, to work, to balance their work and life so they can be home for dinner.

there is no one way to do things.

religion has humiliated itself by the politicized actions of those who wish to return to a utopian ideal of the 1950s that never actually existed. religion has humiliated itself with a chief executive who thinks god tells him what to do. religion has humiliated itself. period.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:56 PM   #30
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Originally posted by Bluer White
What was the divorce rate 50 years ago compared to today? The percentage of unwed mothers? Did mom have a fulltime job 50 years ago, or was she a homemaker who had a sitdown dinner waiting for the family every night?


and how many women stayed with men who were abusive? how many women self-medicated with vodka and valium in response to the lack of choice in their lives? how many women would have been better breadwinners than their husbands, if given the chance?
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