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Old 06-27-2008, 09:09 PM   #31
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Interestingly enough, the crime rate Kennesaw, Georgia plummeted when the city required all its citizens (minus felons) to carry a gun.

Crime Plunges in Pro-gun Town


"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool-or an axe or a saddle or a stove or anything. Think of it always that way. A gun is as good or as bad as the man who carries it. Remember that."

~Shane Jack Schaefer
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:26 PM   #32
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I'm wondering how all these DC gun laws....the same laws being struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional....

are stopping criminals, gang bangers, etc....from getting the handguns they use to raise hell?

Do the DC gun laws keep pistols out of the hands of folks who should not have them, or just out of the hands of folks who respect the laws on the books?

Washington, D.C. is not known as a particularly safe city Why not? They have cracked down on guns
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:02 AM   #33
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"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool-or an axe or a saddle or a stove or anything. Think of it always that way. A gun is as good or as bad as the man who carries it. Remember that."

~Shane Jack Schaefer
I'm sorry but that quote is a pretty bullshit quote. So the gun in the hands of a 6 yr old who killed another child, he was a bad kid? Or the people who hear a noise, reach for a gun and shoot first without thinking, their inherently bad? No their not, they're using not a TOOL but an object made for one reason only TO KILL and using it in situations that do not warrent it.

Most people here know how against gun ownership I am. I do believe that no one besides police and farmers (under strict ownership laws) should be able to own and use guns. I also do understand that this is not a viable option in the US with the amount of guns out there, no huge buyback scheme that Australia put in place is going to work.

I just don't know why a lot of people claim to feel safer with a gun. Ok if someone is attacking you, or breaking into your house with a gun, then ok, having a gun to protect yourself is understandable. But what makes the idea that you can shoot and kill someone, or blow half their head off, or shoot them in the stomach and wathc them die a slow painful death, makes you feel SAFE? Why would you want to do that to anyone? I would not like the person who robbed me, or stole something, or broke into my house, or bashed me over the head, I would ot like to be the person responsible for blowing his brains out. Not to say I don't want them punished, but really? killing someone?

i just think the second ammendment is waaaaaay out of date and should be trotted out as an excuse for the right to carry some semi automatic weapon and shoot someone purely for stepping a toe on your property.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:14 AM   #34
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So you oppose the concept of self-defence in principle?
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:39 AM   #35
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As a resident of DC, I have to say this is the stupidest decision ever.

It's also nice to know that as residents of DC, we have no one in Congress to appeal to....
I agree....being a resident of Baltimore, a stone's trow from D.C. Is just what we need. More hand guns! The murder rate by way of guns is out of control in both cities.

Who goes hunting with a concealed weapon? Criminals that's who. Sure, it will be easier for citizens to protect themselves. But, most of the law abiding don't own a gun. Far too easy for their child to get hold of. And easier access for the criminals. They shouldn't make and distribute them in the first place.

Damn the NRA!
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:50 AM   #36
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Washington, D.C. is not known as a particularly safe city Why not? They have cracked down on guns
If this were to be true, that would be a very sad state of affairs for the US wouldn't it? Because in the end it would mean that an American city that isn't armed falls victim to high crime rates due to a lack or armament. Or, to put it differenty, Americans need to be armed because otherwise people will go mad.

Isn't it maybe that Washington has high crime rates because of a multitude of reasons, economic, socio-economic etc., some of them mentioned by Irvine, and that these reasons are in no way sufficiently answered by liberalising the right to own and bear guns?
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:13 AM   #37
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So you oppose the concept of self-defence in principle?
deadly force self defence for sure. I don't believe a gun is the best form of defence because of its entire killing power, compared to other forms. And yes i know a blow to the head can kill someone, but there is a lot more leeway than shooting someone instead.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:24 AM   #38
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Most people can't fight off an attacker, positing a blow the head as a viable means of self defence seems willfully ignorant and excluding killing an attacker (provided it was a proportional response) strikes me as wrong.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:26 AM   #39
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I agree....being a resident of Baltimore, a stone's trow from D.C. Is just what we need. More hand guns! The murder rate by way of guns is out of control in both cities.

Who goes hunting with a concealed weapon? Criminals that's who. Sure, it will be easier for citizens to protect themselves. But, most of the law abiding don't own a gun. Far too easy for their child to get hold of. And easier access for the criminals. They shouldn't make and distribute them in the first place.

Damn the NRA!
Well yes, because those criminals guys always buy registered weapons and go out to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon before doing something violent.

Is gun crime in America really out of control? Is it worse than any other times in the past?
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:51 AM   #40
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I agree....being a resident of Baltimore, a stone's trow from D.C. Is just what we need. More hand guns! The murder rate by way of guns is out of control in both cities.

Who goes hunting with a concealed weapon? Criminals that's who. Sure, it will be easier for citizens to protect themselves. But, most of the law abiding don't own a gun. Far too easy for their child to get hold of. And easier access for the criminals. They shouldn't make and distribute them in the first place.

Damn the NRA!
Guns are legal in New York City btw - you need a license to own a gun or even to walk into a gun shop. In 2007, they had fewer than 500 murders (a 40 year low) compared to 2245 in 1990. So obviously there are larger factors than legality of guns to blame for violent crime. There may even be a deterrent effect, and violent crime could fall.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:58 PM   #41
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Because in the end it would mean that an American city that isn't armed falls victim to high crime rates due to a lack or armament. Or, to put it differenty, Americans need to be armed because otherwise people will go mad.
Think you're out on a limb a bit here. I have no illusion that if everyone was packing heat then crime would magically go away. But that's really immaterial to me.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional guarantee in this country, period. No matter if you live in the big city or in the middle of nowhere. If a person wishes to own to a handgun, that is a reasonable application of the Second Amendment.

I support registration of firearms, thorough background checks, and a required safety course that each state would need to provide the potential handgun owner. Haven't done much research on trigger locks but I probably would support those as well.
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:35 PM   #42
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Was just going by your last sentence which sounded like "If Washington wasn't cracking down on guns, crime wouldn't ever have gone up so much." Sorry if you didn't mean it in that simple way.

What you described is pretty much the situation in Germany. You need to get kind of a driver's license for guns, proof that you have adequate storage for your gun, then you can buy a gun, get a "passport" for the gun and after that may call yourself a gun owner. Well, there are still more restrictions to gun ownership, like you wouldn't be allowed to carry that gun outside a shooting range or your own home (except you can prove that you are at serious risk and need a gun for self-protection), you can't just get any gun you want and with most weapons you have to show what you want to use them for, like hunting or recreational sport.

But nevertheless, I think there is so much time spent on debating whether or not to have gun restrictions, when the real reasons for violent crimes really are different, much more complex and cannot be answered by an armed society appropriately.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:02 PM   #43
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"A gun is a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool-or an axe or a saddle or a stove or anything. Think of it always that way. A gun is as good or as bad as the man who carries it. Remember that."

~Shane Jack Schaefer
Shane was a tool.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:07 PM   #44
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Was just going by your last sentence which sounded like "If Washington wasn't cracking down on guns, crime wouldn't ever have gone up so much." Sorry if you didn't mean it in that simple way.
Yes, that was poorly worded on my part. It was more of a tongue in cheek comment, since I don't think a gun ban has much impact on gun crime.

Germany probably has a different gun culture than the U.S., but it sounds like your country has some reasonable policies in place.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:17 PM   #45
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Ok, took it too literally.

I guess when it comes to the understanding of freedom and liberties Germany and the US have a whole different take on these, and gun control would be one thing. Many think our gun restrictions are way too hard as you really have to present adequate proof as to why you want to buy that gun, how you would use it, how to store it, etc. In my view so far it has served us quite well.
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