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Old 09-26-2006, 12:36 AM   #46
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I felt like nothing but a sinner.
I'm sorry you felt that way; sadly, that's the way many churches preach the Gospel these days. They load people down with guilt instead of encouraging them to just let The Holy Spirit live through them. But the interesting thing is that Paul did not refer to Christians as "sinners", but as "Saints". This doesn't mean that Christians are perfect in the flesh. However, when you became a Christian, your sin nature was crucified and was replaced with a new nature fashioned by Christ for righteous living - you became a "new creation" (2 Cor. 5:17). Your whole identification changed, because your sins are now covered by the blood of Christ, and God judges you by your spirit, not your flesh. And your spirit is perfectly clean, like a spotless lamb.

I used to feel like a dirty rotten sinner; like I said, many churches sure do like to pile the guilt on. But it was when I started to really understand who I am in Christ that I realized what a great change God has made and continues to make in the lives of those who trust in him.

If you want to learn more about how to shake this "dirty rotten sinner" stuff, and learn how valued you are to God, and the nature of your identity in Christ, I highly recommend reading the book "Lifetime Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Dr. Gillham also has a great resource web site, http://www.lifetime.org/
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Old 09-26-2006, 08:29 PM   #47
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I'm interested in learning about Judaism. Not sure if it is to become Jewish, but everything about me (apparently) points to a belief in it. Given this, I'd like to know more. One day I hope to learn about it. I feel like I know absolutely nothing about it (or any, for that matter), currently, and well, I'm curious.


80s or anyone, how do you confess? I mean literally. If I were to, for arguments sake, the things which constitute sin in your Bible are about 3 solid days worth (or probably much more) of continual talking in list form of what I've done wrong in my life. I'm serious, it's a bad long arsed list. I've wished bad on people, been vain, gloated, been lazy, I've done everything (in large doses) which makes me a hell bad sinner. I've obviously never physically harmed someone or coveted my neighbour's ass (I'll refrain from joking) - actually jealousy is one thing I thankfully dont suffer from. still, how do you do it? Do you do some loophole confession which covers it all such as "forgive me for all my sins" or do you literally list them? I'm sure I'm not even aware of half of mine. Which leads me to the next question. Few people are aware of exactly what they are. Lets take judging. I'm bad for judging people. I think I do it all the time, and most likely more than I could possibly realise. I see a whole lot of judgement in Christians. The odds of them seeing just how it is, is not great - we all fail to see what we really are, I reckon. I've even seen Christians flat out deny they judge people (in here is a good example), when clearly they are doing nothing but judging others. You cant really be clean and free if you dont even acknowledge your faults, right?
In short, how do you confess to something you wont/cant even acknowledge?
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Old 09-26-2006, 09:44 PM   #48
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I'm interested in learning about Judaism. Not sure if it is to become Jewish, but everything about me (apparently) points to a belief in it. Given this, I'd like to know more. One day I hope to learn about it. I feel like I know absolutely nothing about it (or any, for that matter), currently, and well, I'm curious.


80s or anyone, how do you confess?


I mean literally. If I were to, for arguments sake, the things which constitute sin in your Bible are about 3 solid days worth (or probably much more) of continual talking in list form of what I've done wrong in my life. I'm serious, it's a bad long arsed list. I've wished bad on people, been vain, gloated, been lazy, I've done everything (in large doses) which makes me a hell bad sinner. I've obviously never physically harmed someone or coveted my neighbour's ass (I'll refrain from joking) - actually jealousy is one thing I thankfully dont suffer from. still, how do you do it? Do you do some loophole confession which covers it all such as "forgive me for all my sins" or do you literally list them? I'm sure I'm not even aware of half of mine. Which leads me to the next question. Few people are aware of exactly what they are. Lets take judging. I'm bad for judging people. I think I do it all the time, and most likely more than I could possibly realise. I see a whole lot of judgement in Christians. The odds of them seeing just how it is, is not great - we all fail to see what we really are, I reckon. I've even seen Christians flat out deny they judge people (in here is a good example), when clearly they are doing nothing but judging others. You cant really be clean and free if you dont even acknowledge your faults, right?
In short, how do you confess to something you wont/cant even acknowledge?
Well, I don't confess publically, because I'm not Catholic. In my prayer time and at the time I sin, I confess what I think of that I've done and what God brings up to me. However, if I miss one, I don't lose my salvation or anything. The Bible teaches that once I become a Christian all my sins are forgiven, whether I remember to confess them or not. However, I do believe that unconfessed sin hurts my fellowship with God, and it is in my best interest to confess what I can and turn away from doing it again.

There are times when I am not aware of all my sins, but most of the time, I know it as soon as I've committed the sin. Many times, it will come to me later. The Holy Spirit really convicts me of sin.
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:21 PM   #49
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I have no idea if you are a Christian or not; only you and God know if you actually gave your life to him or if it was just an emotional experiment.

But if you were really a Christian, I truly believe that you still are.

The main issue I have with all of this is that Jesus never called himself a Christian, in fact the distinction was never made until much later. When Jesus died, he never labeled himself as anything other than a Jew....
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:21 PM   #50
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Thanks, 80s.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:28 PM   #51
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The main issue I have with all of this is that Jesus never called himself a Christian, in fact the distinction was never made until much later. When Jesus died, he never labeled himself as anything other than a Jew....
Glad I'm not the only one who's wondered this!
Here's a dumb question for you folk. How did there ever become Christianity? I've often wondered, but figured the answer was too obvious and I was just thick. Seems if you want 'religion' you stay with the Jesus story and therefore the Jewish caper as well.

And if anyone answers, can I have a shortened version? Not a wikipedia cut and paste.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:32 PM   #52
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Originally posted by starsgoblue



The main issue I have with all of this is that Jesus never called himself a Christian, in fact the distinction was never made until much later. When Jesus died, he never labeled himself as anything other than a Jew....
Jesus never called himself a Christian because he is the Christ (The Messiah). No one was a Christian until after Christ died, because one of the requirements of being a Christian is believing that Christ died and rose back to life.

You're right, Jesus was a Jew. But he labeled himself as much more than that. He labeled himself as "The Son Of God", "One with the Father", "The Way, the Truth, The Life" and more.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:34 PM   #53
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Glad I'm not the only one who's wondered this!
Here's a dumb question for you folk. How did there ever become Christianity? I've often wondered, but figured the answer was too obvious and I was just thick. Seems if you want 'religion' you stay with the Jesus story and therefore the Jewish caper as well.

And if anyone answers, can I have a shortened version? Not a wikipedia cut and paste.
After Christ died and rose again, the initial stages of the Christian faith and church came about as a result of the disciples preaching the Gospels, the Good News about Christ, to their own nation and to other nations.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:41 PM   #54
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Jesus never called himself a Christian because he is the Christ (The Messiah).

I don't see how these two logically relate.

Quote:
No one was a Christian until after Christ died, because one of the requirements of being a Christian is believing that Christ died and rose back to life.
Christ never said his followers were to be called Christian. The term was given much later in the Bible and in history.

Quote:
You're right, Jesus was a Jew. But he labeled himself as much more than that. He labeled himself as "The Son Of God", "One with the Father", "The Way, the Truth, The Life" and more.
Yes, but that doesn't solve the question of the differentiation from "Judiasm" to "Christianity". He proclaimed how the faith was being peverted and abused.
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Old 09-27-2006, 12:09 AM   #55
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I don't see how these two logically relate.
Christianity is called "Christianity" because the people follow and worship Christ. Christ wouldn't have identified himself as a "Christian" because he was the one who was to be worshipped and followed, not the one doing the worshipping and following.


Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue

Christ never said his followers were to be called Christian. The term was given much later in the Bible and in history.
It wasn't late in history at all. Actually, Luke referred to Christ's followers as "Christains" as early as the book of Acts, which was all about the very beginning stages of the Christian church, which happened while most of Christ's disciples were still alive.


Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
Yes, but that doesn't solve the question of the differentiation from "Judiasm" to "Christianity". He proclaimed how the faith was being peverted and abused.
Yes, he did do that. But more so, he set up the foundation for the faith of Christianity. He knew he was going to die and rise again as a payment for our sins, and he spoke openly about that and left instructions for his disciple to carry on the good news after he was to ascend to the Father.

The Jewish scriptures are filled to the brim with prophecies of the coming Messiah. Christians believe that Christ fulfilled those. That is the main distinction between Judaism and Christianity, but there are more.
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Old 09-27-2006, 01:37 AM   #56
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If it were ever proved that Jesus was just a man, but a man with great ideals, would your view change much? Ie, no immaculate conception, no son of God, no rising from the dead, etc.
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Old 09-27-2006, 01:40 AM   #57
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What if it were proved that he was a fabricated figure?
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Old 09-27-2006, 01:45 AM   #58
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What if it were proved that he was a fabricated figure?
That would be a rather interesting day.
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Old 09-27-2006, 07:39 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
If it were ever proved that Jesus was just a man, but a man with great ideals, would your view change much? Ie, no immaculate conception, no son of God, no rising from the dead, etc.
I'm not sure what would constitute such a proof to the extent that we have the "interesting day" that Earnie Shaver's suggested. I'm not convinced such a day could ever come and I'd be curious to hear someone paint a hypothetical picture of what such a "final proof" would look like. Same for A_W's question about Jesus' actual existance. Many people feel that such a proof has already been made in that immaculate conception, rising from the dead and indeed the existance of God are considered scientifically impossible or unprovable.

Granted proving God is all but impossible. But disproving Him is as well, unless you accept that the absence of proof is rock solid evidence that something that does not exist. For the believer there is sufficient evidence to base faith upon. For the those who do not believe, there may never be enough evidence.

As to Jesus existance, I had always thought that there was general agreement that there was a man named Jesus, an actual person who existed. His claims (or even whether the "historical Jesus" actually made any grand claims) are disputable.

Sometimes I think belief in God or unbelief is not really the core issue. Often the God people do not believe isn't worth believing in anyway. People say, well, if God would just reveal Himself in way that was indisputable, then I would believe, as if that's what matters most. But I think less important to God than acknowledging His "reality", is our response to Him AFTER we recognize that He is. Believing that God is real is not the same as accepting and knowing Him for who He is and entering into a genuine, love-based relationship with Him, which is what I believe what God wants most with us.

The kind of faith that many of those who do not believe rail against is just totally foreign to me. (Okay, well, not totally foreign. I'm increasingly skeptical of religiosity in general. But the God they describe is completely different than the One that I know and put my trust in). I'm kind of inclined to join them in railing because faith as they describe it sounds pretty wack to me too.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:51 AM   #60
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Granted proving God is all but impossible. But disproving Him is as well, unless you accept that the absence of proof is rock solid evidence that something that does not exist. For the believer there is sufficient evidence to base faith upon. For the those who do not believe, there may never be enough evidence.
And this is the difference between those who believe and those who don't.

Those who believe don't require proof, and those who require proof won't believe.
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