Christmas Music!

[u2valleygirl]

As a Jew, I really love Christmas music. I enjoy listening to it, however I don't want my son singing "Christ our savoir is born" Chanuka is a minor Jewish holiday. The little songs are more about family traditions than religion. I am trying to think of a Chanuka song that is about religion and none come to mind.

 

[verte76]

I have participated in Hannukah and Passover celebrations also.

 

[Liesje]

because we're talking about public schools. celebrate the "winter carnival" aspect of Christmas, and let the religious part be celebrated by christian families and their churches.

I think what Doug is getting at is that a "winter carnival" is probably the farthest thing from the TRUE meaning of Christmas, which is by it's own nature and definition a relgious holiday.

If the public schools are against religion in school, then they should drop Christmas and Easter altogether.

 

[BVS]

If the public schools are against religion in school, then they should drop Christmas and Easter altogether.

This actually makes the most sense. The time off of school should still exist, but public schools "celebrating" religious holidays is ridiculous. But then of course this would just cause more controversy.

 

[anitram]

Don't take my public holidays away, you monsters! I barely get time off as it is.

 

[Irvine511]

I think what Doug is getting at is that a "winter carnival" is probably the farthest thing from the TRUE meaning of Christmas, which is by it's own nature and definition a relgious holiday.

If the public schools are against religion in school, then they should drop Christmas and Easter altogether.

sorry, don't agree. christmas is much more multi-dimensional. it's far beyond religion at this point. good or bad, right or wrong, that's the way it is. anyway, i think it's great. easter bunnies, santa claus, presents and brightly colored eggs all have religious origins, but have evolved (or devolved, depending on your point of view) into something different.

and for my Hindu friend, the TRUE meaning of Christmas is a winter carnival. do you wish to take that away from her?

 

[MadelynIris]

and for my Hindu friend, the TRUE meaning of Christmas is a winter carnival. do you wish to take that away from her?

No of course not. Let's take it way from the way America has traditionally celebrated it. After all, we not allowed to have a culture or heritage.

Mark

p.s. winter carnival my ass.

 

[BVS]

Let's take it way from the way America has traditionally celebrated it. After all, we not allowed to have a culture or heritage.

Wait are you saying American culture does not include Hindu?

Celebrate whatever holiday you want in the the way you want it, but don't make kids sing or celebrate holidays they don't believe in. Come on, it's just common sense.

 

[Stonewall]

Merry CHRISTMAS & Happy CHANUKAH

"CHRISTMAS" has been part of American culture, heritage and tradition since before America commenced. It has 'worked' for over two centuries. What's the sudden "beef" now? Immigrants who come to our land should adjust and accept and adopt our traditions, values and mores not vice versa! Oh, as of tomorrow (December) Merry Christmas!! and Happy Chanukah!!

 

[MadelynIris]

What Stonewall said. Can't we have something that is traditionally american, even if based on a religion?


Please, please, please? The Hindu kids will just have to politely not sing those songs.

But if we were in India, yes my kids would be singing Buhdist songs. It's ok man.

Mark

 

[BVS]

India is not "the melting pot". You can't pride yourself on one thing but reject what it truly means.

I don't fall for this, "this is our country and these damn foreigners are changing it" B.S.

I don't understand what the big deal is. I went to public school and we never sang anything other than the secular song like jingle bells.

 

[verte76]

Uh, the early Americans didn't celebrate either Christmas or Easter. The Puritans did not believe in celebrating these holidays, and they were the first Christians in our part of the New World. It was only in the nineteenth century, when the country had become somewhat more diverse in religion, it was still staunchly Protestant but not really Puritan--that we started to celebrate these holidays in public. The "root", if you will, of Christmas is the winter solstice. More directly it was a celebration of the birth of the Persian Sun God in a popular cult in the Roman Empire. They screwed up and slightly miscalculated the solstice, placing it on the 25th when it's closer to the 21st of December. Thus the choice of day. The way our society "celebrates" Christmas now is just one big commercial blitz, in my opinion. They've obscured the true meaning of it behind dollar signs. It's unfortunate.

 

[Liesje]

and for my Hindu friend, the TRUE meaning of Christmas is a winter carnival. do you wish to take that away from her?

I wasn't aware that Hindus celebrated the birth of Christ

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I respect other faiths and beliefs, but I do think the PC thing has gone way too far.

For example, calling it a "holiday" tree. It's a Christmas tree- pardon my ignorance, but is any other religion truly offended by calling it that?

 

[nbcrusader]

because we're talking about public schools. celebrate the "winter carnival" aspect of Christmas, and let the religious part be celebrated by christian families and their churches. if i were in a public school, and i were jewish or buddhist or muslim or atheist, i'd feel very, very awkward about being forced to sing "Christ the saviour is born" (or, if i refused, have to suffer feeling even more different from my peers). i wouldn't, however, have any problems with songs involving reindeer, sleighbells, presents, and santa. like i said, Santa can visit Hindu children, but Jesus (necessarily) doesn't become their saviour on the 25th of December.

Then we are essentially erasing parts of history in order to satisfy the feelings of a few. Singing a song does not make you a believer.

 

[Irvine511]

I wasn't aware that Hindus celebrated the birth of Christ

go back and read my posts. no, they don't celebrate the birth of christ. but living in American, they celebrate Christmas in a secular fashion -- trees, stockings, reindeer, and santa. jesus has nothing to do with their celebrations. it's a winter carnival to them, and i'm very happy they have a means of celebrating something that literally consumes the entire month of December.

imagine not being Christian for a moment. how would December feel to you?

 

[Irvine511]

No of course not. Let's take it way from the way America has traditionally celebrated it. After all, we not allowed to have a culture or heritage.

Mark

p.s. winter carnival my ass.

well, if you want to be possessive about Christmas, go ahead. and get ready for it to be totally, 100% kicked out of public schools if the only way you're willing to allow it to be celebrated is in a purely religious context.

sadly, this means that the wonderful celebrations, songs, colors, and lights that have sprung up around chirstmas will no longer be available. they're too pagan, i'm sure.

 

[Irvine511]

I respect other faiths and beliefs, but I do think the PC thing has gone way too far.

For example, calling it a "holiday" tree. It's a Christmas tree- pardon my ignorance, but is any other religion truly offended by calling it that?

no, Christmas tree is fine. there is a HUGE difference between a Christmas tree and a nativity scene. one is fine in schools and public buildlings, the other is not.

i don't see what's so hard about this.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

It used to be no problem to anyone to have the 10 Commandments on display and whatnot. I guess now lawyers have a hard time accepting Thou Shall Not Lie and Thou Shall Not Kill?

 

[Irvine511]

the 10 commandments are fine in a *historical* contect, but to post them up in a federal buildling or construct some stone monstrosity to be placed in front of a state court house is something entirely different. false idols, anyone?

nuance! nuance! nuance!

it's a good thing!

 

[Macfistowannabe]

False idols? ... I lost you.

 

[nbcrusader]

False idols? ... I lost you.

Worshiping the writing of the Ten Commandments rather than following them, I suppose.

I guess in the name of multiculturalism, we need to strip vestiges of the influence of Christianity from public life.

We are nowhere near "establishment" of state religion.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I don't think "establishing a state religion" is okay, but I don't see why everyone is in such a hurry to kick God out of the country. People will always believe in a higher power, while others may choose not to. That freedom is simply a gift from our founding fathers to choose what you want to believe in.

 

[Irvine511]

Worshiping the writing of the Ten Commandments rather than following them, I suppose.

I guess in the name of multiculturalism, we need to strip vestiges of the influence of Christianity from public life.

We are nowhere near "establishment" of state religion.

that strikes me as more than a bit melodramatic.

no one is talking about the historical influence, but yes, we don't want Christianity's specific set of cultural icons -- crosses, nativity scenes, the 10 Commandments -- to be displayed in federal buildings. this casts religion in a specifically christian context, and would be tantamount to the "establishment" of state religion.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

How about we also have the star of David, the Islamic moon, would that work out?

 

[nbcrusader]

no one is talking about the historical influence, but yes, we don't want Christianity's specific set of cultural icons -- crosses, nativity scenes, the 10 Commandments -- to be displayed in federal buildings. this casts religion in a specifically christian context, and would be tantamount to the "establishment" of state religion.

That could be equally construed as melodramatic.

There are historical and cultural influences from Christianity. To say that today, we must strip them all from public view is unnecessary.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

It's pretty sad that the cross - which is supposed to symbolize the crucifixion - could offend so many people. I think it has reason to offend the "Jesus never existed" crowd. Other than that, who does it threaten?

 

[Irvine511]

How about we also have the star of David, the Islamic moon, would that work out?

what about a statue of the Buddha? what about Vishnu?

 

[Irvine511]

That could be equally construed as melodramatic.

There are historical and cultural influences from Christianity. To say that today, we must strip them all from public view is unnecessary.

we're not stripping them from public view, we are stripping them from federal buildings. walk into any town in New England, and you'll see a great big church with a cross on top. we're all fine with that. having a cross in a post office is *entirely* different.

 

[nbcrusader]

what about a statue of the Buddha? what about Vishnu?

The all or nothing argument. Doesn't matter what has developed here culturally over the last 200 years......