Christians! It may be time to convert-> - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-27-2004, 08:11 AM   #76
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
"I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." -- 1 Timothy 2:8-15

Melon
Its just dandy. Someone should write a book on this shit. Then a billion or so people around the world can all follow it and all will be just dandy.

Offensive, aren't I? A bit of too bad really. Is there anyone who is not offended as a result of religion, I wonder?

__________________

__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 09:10 AM   #77
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,256
Local Time: 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by bonosgirl84
well, yes. we all do things that go against the bible, and the bible teaches that all sins can be forgiven if we repent. can't really compare being gay to that set of rules, can ya?
No. But hey, then again, if Catholic priests who molest children can still have their jobs, well...

Quote:
Originally posted by bonosgirl84
and anyway, i think icelle's point is that a gay preacher would be deliberately and willingly living a life that the bible says is sinful, which would be a direct contadiction to it's teachings.
But if they didn't choose to be gay, they're not deliberately breaking the rules, now, are they? God would've created them to be that way. And if we're referring more to the fact that they choose to act on their love, and that's how they deliberately break the rules...well, yeah, they're human, too, they want to act on their feelings for somebody.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 10:18 AM   #78
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
"I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." -- 1 Timothy 2:8-15

Melon
Speaking as an uppity woman who teaches, absolututely delights in gold, pearls, and costly array, and who has chosen to not participate in childbearing, it's a damn good thing I'm not a Christian!!
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 03-27-2004, 10:20 AM   #79
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by icelle

its a contradiction to what's preached in the bible.
There's part in the Bible that says gays can't be preachers and church leaders?
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 03-27-2004, 11:03 AM   #80
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
cell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 5,901
Local Time: 10:00 PM
no there isnt. in general, what's being taught in the bible is that homosexuality is a sin.
__________________
cell is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 11:49 AM   #81
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by icelle
no there isnt. in general, what's being taught in the bible is that homosexuality is a sin.
Ignoring the fact that I don't actually agree with that...

The Bible says lying is a sin. Do you believe all who have ever lied should be excluded from leadership roles in a church?

Or are you judging homosexuality to somehow be a "worse" sin than lying and therefore an acceptable reason to exclude a person from a leadership role in a church? If so, what is your basis for judging one sin to be worse than another?
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 12:00 PM   #82
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,256
Local Time: 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Ignoring the fact that I don't actually agree with that...

The Bible says lying is a sin. Do you believe all who have ever lied should be excluded from leadership roles in a church?

Or are you judging homosexuality to somehow be a "worse" sin than lying and therefore an acceptable reason to exclude a person from a leadership role in a church? If so, what is your basis for judging one sin to be worse than another?
Thank you. Exactly what I was trying to get at, only said much better. .

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 12:14 PM   #83
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
cell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 5,901
Local Time: 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Ignoring the fact that I don't actually agree with that...

The Bible says lying is a sin. Do you believe all who have ever lied should be excluded from leadership roles in a church?

Or are you judging homosexuality to somehow be a "worse" sin than lying and therefore an acceptable reason to exclude a person from a leadership role in a church? If so, what is your basis for judging one sin to be worse than another?


im not judging anyone, and i dont percieve one sin to be worse than the other. i think everyone knows where im coming from with my past experiences.


as i have said before in my previous post in here, i dont have any issues with gays doing everything else. im fine with that.
but anyone who's in a leadership role in church is supposed to be christlike, if you will.

i wouldnt want to be in a leadership role if it paid me mucho money.


i think i'm done with this thread, as it might lead to more questions being asked that i seriously can't answer, being that i still have questions about my faith also. thanks for not flaming me...
__________________
cell is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 01:07 PM   #84
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Meh. Nevermind. I've had this discussion enough times to know that it'll only end in both sides being offended. I'll just keep quiet this time.
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 01:18 PM   #85
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:00 AM
Actually I do have one quick question to those of you who have said you think the Bible condemns homosexuality. How many of you would take a literal interpretation of the quote melon posted -- ie would say women should never be allowed to teach or have authority over men? And if you don't interpret that literally can you explain how you know what to interpret literally and what to interpret differently?
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 05:06 PM   #86
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 06:00 AM
you'd almost forget that the bible for the larger part isn't even about gays or about the differences between men and women

yes, imagine that!!


I thought the bible foremost teaches us that God loves everyone and that we should try to do the same
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 07:21 PM   #87
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Actually I do have one quick question to those of you who have said you think the Bible condemns homosexuality. How many of you would take a literal interpretation of the quote melon posted -- ie would say women should never be allowed to teach or have authority over men? And if you don't interpret that literally can you explain how you know what to interpret literally and what to interpret differently?
I'll trust this is an honest spiritual question. My wife and I both struggle with the scope and meaning of the passage. And I have discussed before how a former friend of ours used this passage to tell my wife that she should not teach at all (she gives weekly lectures to women and continues to do so).

From my experiences, I have respect for those who struggle with this passage honestly, taking a high view of God and His Word. If we can dismiss this passage as completely unapplicable, what is to stop us from dismissing any other passage?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 07:36 PM   #88
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:00 AM
I agree with you, Salome.

Nbcrusader, it was an honest question, thank-you for your response. The entire question of whether the Bible is to be taken literally is one of the things I find most confusing about religion. I honestly don't understand how some people seem to "pick and choose" what they will take literally and what they won't. I mean if you say everything is to be interpreted literally then...well, I don't get much further than the idea of the world being created in seven literal days as from everything I've learned in science, this is impossible. If you say nothing is to be interpreted literally, it's all about the context, then how can a person know that the beliefs that are sort of central to Christianity are true? And if you choose a position somewhere in between, some parts are literal, some aren't, well how on earth do you know the difference?

I haven't yet heard a single answer to this question which made sense to me. Although if anyone wants to attempt to explain then you should feel free.

*Fizz.
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 08:58 PM   #89
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'll trust this is an honest spiritual question. My wife and I both struggle with the scope and meaning of the passage. And I have discussed before how a former friend of ours used this passage to tell my wife that she should not teach at all (she gives weekly lectures to women and continues to do so).

From my experiences, I have respect for those who struggle with this passage honestly, taking a high view of God and His Word. If we can dismiss this passage as completely unapplicable, what is to stop us from dismissing any other passage?
This passage, amongst others, is why I base my faith on the test of Romans 13:8-10 ("Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law," etc.). Sure, St. Paul (FYI, for those who don't realize this, the epistles of Timothy are written by Paul to Timothy) may have honestly believed that women had no place in society, except to be a baby-making husband trophy, but, as I base my faith on the totality of St. Paul's message--which is, repeatedly, that love is the greatest commandment--I can look past his prejudices. As I am not burdened with attempting to deify every last sentence of the Bible, I am willing to accept that the Biblical writers had biases and prejudices consistent with a 2000+ year-old Hebrew / Greco-Roman culture.

Sheer *reality* has proven that women are just as capable of teaching as any man is, if not better, in individual cases. Thus, I believe it is completely logical to dismiss this passage as a cultural antiquity, back in the days when women were viewed completely differently. "Love," as always, wins out, and denying women the right express themselves would be, to me, a complete violation of love, and, thus, be the greatest sin.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-27-2004, 10:11 PM   #90
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 09:00 PM
I'm still a little worried about the not being able to wear gold and pearls.
__________________

__________________
martha is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com