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Old 12-06-2004, 11:00 AM   #46
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Abortion causes emotional scars though. I've had women call me who had had an abortion as much as 20 years ago and they are still hurting from it. Obviously it still bothers them if they've carried it around with them for that long....

From what I've witnessed this isn't something that liberates women at all...it seems to do the opposite in fact.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:01 AM   #47
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I've heard that 9 out of every 10 women regret their abortions. I don't doubt it.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:04 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by dandy
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abortion is an imperfect means of dealing with a larger problem--women who end up pregnant against their will.
So their will had nothing to do with consensual sex? I'm beginning to side with Mac. on this point - with the miniscule number of rape and incest cases aside, women DO have the right to chose...to have sex or not.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:06 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
Abortion causes emotional scars though. I've had women call me who had had an abortion as much as 20 years ago and they are still hurting from it. Obviously it still bothers them if they've carried it around with them for that long....

From what I've witnessed this isn't something that liberates women at all...it seems to do the opposite in fact.
I think this is a good point and although I'm pro-life, I've read some article about abortion clinics that offer care and couselling for months AFTER the abortion and I think this should be more widespread. They encourage women to properly grieve as one would if a healthy living child had died. I think a lot of the emotional baggage that results from abortion is because women feel they have to think of the aborted child as not a child, just a pile of guts, but their heart believes otherwise and needs to grieve.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:07 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
Abortion causes emotional scars though. I've had women call me who had had an abortion as much as 20 years ago and they are still hurting from it. Obviously it still bothers them if they've carried it around with them for that long....
i don't doubt that it does. some of my friends have been through it, and it was the hardest decision of their lives. it's not an easy decision to make, and i think most women innately understand this.

the pro-choice crowd doesn't think abortion is wonderful--they see it as a neccesary evil. when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, no choice is easy.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:10 AM   #51
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I disagree with the emotional scars thing. I have had an abortion and I don't regret it at all. I also know of at least five other women who have had them and nope, no regrets. Which sounds flippant, but that's because this topic gets way too judgemental about something that is an individuals choice.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:10 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by dandy


i don't doubt that it does. some of my friends have been through it, and it was the hardest decision of their lives. it's not an easy decision to make, and i think most women innately understand this.

the pro-choice crowd doesn't think abortion is wonderful--they see it as a neccesary evil. when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, no choice is easy.
But again though...why does it seem like adoption is such a dirty word?

It's difficult on its own but the result are alot more postive.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:10 AM   #53
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


So their will had nothing to do with consensual sex? I'm beginning to side with Mac. on this point - with the miniscule number of rape and incest cases aside, women DO have the right to chose...to have sex or not.

i don't think so. there is still rampant gender inequality that manifests itself in subtle ways, and women don't feel as empowered as they should to say no to sex from husbands or boyfriends or to insist on particular methods (i'm shocked, SHOCKED, at the resistance many men have to condoms) or lack the knoweldge of how to use birth control effectively because they were given abstinence-only education in school (had to throw that in there). i think it's a vast oversimplification to tell people to "just say no" to sex -- life doesn't lend itself to such pat answers.

this might be poor form of me, but i remember watching an Oprah show which gave a rather startling statistic -- something to the effect of nearly 70% of the women in this country are a man away from a welfare check. poor form in that's a rather dodgy way of making a point, but i think the spirit of that is intact.

let's educate and empower women, and you'll see abortions plummet. no one likes abortion, not least women who've had one, but that doesn't mean they aren't glad it was legal.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:14 AM   #54
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I see two different liberal stances on the issue:
1) against having it done in my own life, but want others to make their own decision
2) don't tell me what I can and can't do with my own body, reenie reenie reenie (Had to throw that in there too)
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:15 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissMoo
I disagree with the emotional scars thing. I have had an abortion and I don't regret it at all. I also know of at least five other women who have had them and nope, no regrets. Which sounds flippant, but that's because this topic gets way too judgemental about something that is an individuals choice.
I'm not trying to be judgemental at all, MissMoo. I hope you don't think I am.

I am only saying that from my experience at my job that I've had women call, often many years afterwards, expressing problems...and the problems didn't surface for awhile. I've also had a friend who went through this...

I don't think that every single woman who has one is going to experience that...or that it makes them flippant at all.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:16 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissMoo
I disagree with the emotional scars thing. I have had an abortion and I don't regret it at all. I also know of at least five other women who have had them and nope, no regrets. Which sounds flippant, but that's because this topic gets way too judgemental about something that is an individuals choice.
Thanks for sharing this with us. It's a perspective we don't usually get.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:16 AM   #57
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Why is the "I'm against it, but others should be allowed" argument only used for abortion? If you truly believe that principle, then it should apply to other things, like child rape. A harsh example, but one that underscores that failings of the principle.
That's what I've been trying to express, WHY is this so justified? You'd never say it was a choice for OJ to kill his wife, or for Joe Blow to shoot the clerk at the liquor store, or even for Billy Bob to steal someone's car. If it's wrong, it's wrong for EVERYONE, not just those with a conscience! Since some people don't have a conscience, it is necessary to make laws against certain things.

Quote:
Originally posted by Evalicious
am definitely pro-abortion.
CHEERS to you for calling it by name! If you're going to support it, don't hide behind labels and rhetoric like 'choice', have the guts to stand up and call it what it REALLY is!

That's what bothers me so much about this, people hide behind comfy little terms to try to make it sound noble and justified and cover up the true subject matter.


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Originally posted by Golightly Grrl
Can someone please explain to me why it's selfish not to want a child or children?

Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue

It's not selfish to not want one.

But I guess, and I'm playing devil's advocate, why is adoption not an option or such a bad idea? Abortion can and does cause a risk to the woman and it's a final and permanent decision. One choice ends a life. Another choice can give a life a chance.
That's it, it's not selfish not to want kids and I do hope people who don't want them don't have them. But I do feel it's wrong in a sick sort of way to just 'get rid of it' like it was yesterday's old newspaper or some old clothes you don't want. Again, my disgust at our throwaway society, the pets, the babies
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:17 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Why is the "I'm against it, but others should be allowed" argument only used for abortion? If you truly believe that principle, then it should apply to other things, like child rape. A harsh example, but one that underscores that failings of the principle.
There's a BIG difference here. Child rape involves someone using power to inflict pain, suffering on someone else. Abortion is your own decision, what YOU do to your own body.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:21 AM   #59
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Originally posted by u2lassie

There's a BIG difference here. Child rape involves someone using power to inflict pain, suffering on someone else. Abortion is your own decision, what YOU do to your own body.
Excuse me, but this isn't a haircut, nose job, tattoo or a body piercing. It's a life, someone else's life and body is involved- the baby! NO ONE should be able to choose death for another person. You inflict quite a bit on the unborn child, you rob him/her of life.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:22 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2lassie

There's a BIG difference here. Child rape involves someone using power to inflict pain, suffering on someone else. Abortion is your own decision, what YOU do to your own body.
I guess if you skip the killing of a child part, abortion would be different.

Anyways, the principle is the same.
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