Bono's stance on abortion and stem cell research

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
U2Kitten said:
Okay enough with the worst case scenario rhetoric, everyone knows there would always be exceptions for rape, incest, severe deformation of the fetus and health of the mother. Even most anti abortion people agree (including me)

You are dreaming here. "Everyone" doesn't know this or believe it. Look deeper into the anti-choice movement. What you find out will scare the shit out of you.


U2Kitten said:

That doesn't change that 90-98% of all abortions in the US are for reasons of convenience.
Got any reliable statistics to back this up?
 
martha said:


You are dreaming here. "Everyone" doesn't know this or believe it. Look deeper into the anti-choice movement. What you find out will scare the shit out of you.

But extremism never takes hold, in ANY cause, there is always a middle of the road. It has to be approved by many people and that's not going to happen.

And nothing makes my blood boil more than the term 'anti-choice.' Are you for everyone having every choice in the world? If not, it's stupid. It's just another attempt to make abortion look noble and cover up what it really is. If you are for gun control, you are anti choice. If you think I must wear a seat belt in my car, you are anti-choice. If you oppose smoking in resturants, you are anti choice. There are also such hypocrisies in the term 'pro life' which is why I also refuse to use it. The accurate terms are 'pro and anti abortion.' If anyone is uncomfortable with that label perhaps you need to reconsider your position. Covering it up and sugar coating it with terms you prefer don't change what it really is!



Got any reliable statistics to back this up?

Got any to discount it?

The one thing people overlook in this debate is that, unilke the dreaded 'back alley' days you hear so much about, a wide variety of birth control is readily available these days, and it doesn't fail all that often. The biggest problem we have is people (men and women) being careless, irresponsible, and thinking it won't happen to them. I have a hard time feeling sorry for types like that, I pity the unborn child more, it wasn't his/her fault.
 
Last edited:
Sure. I don't have a link, how do you google something like that? But I've seen it many many times. Unless you can prove it wrong, my numbers stand. Besides, even if I did post something I'm sure you'd diss my source, so why bother?

Okay I found this, some of the reasons here are very upsetting to me.

http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm

Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

Looks like around 7% for health reasons. I don't even see rape, incest or failed birth control on the list. I can't believe the ones for career, money or afraid the boyfriend will get mad, or just plain not wanting the baby because you don't want to take care of it, to me that's no different than killing your boss or your husband because he's in the way of what you feel like doing.

And for those of you who might say it's not for me to judge, other crimes are judged, other things are against the law. This is the only thing that's justified, I can't understand it.

I can't swallow the ideology that because someone is poor or has a less than perfect life they might as well die now. If that's true, kill me, my kids, all those African kids, and about 80% of the human race now. I guess it's just too personal with me, I've had 3 kids and have not had good financial situations, but that doesn't mean my kids didn't deserve to live. I find that insulting, actually. You never know, one of them might grow up to be rich and famous. As long as there is life, there is a chance.

As I've said before, I really shouldn't discuss this, I feel too strongly about it. I really really didn't want to post this, I only did it so I wouldn't get accused of ducking and running. So there you go, the list and my comments. NOW- I have to go PLEASE before we all start hating each other:|
 
Last edited:
martha said:
You didn't answer my question. And there can be a discussion of alternatives without outlawing a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body.
I believe a woman's choice is made when she decides whether or not to have sex if she is unprepared to parent the possible result. In that form, a woman can very rightfully decide what to do with her body. Condoms and birth control can reduce the risk of pregnancy - and I don't oppose either, but it's not a guarantee. I hear liberals talk a lot about righting past wrongs. So to go with that principle, instead of killing an innocent baby, we can provide alternatives to give that child not just any life, but a life worth living. I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if it went to supporting unwanted children, especially if it allowed me to visit them, and let them know I care about them.
 
Macfistowannabe said:
I believe a woman's choice is made when she decides whether or not to have sex if she is unprepared to parent the possible result. In that form, a woman can very rightfully decide what to do with her body.

:up: My only concern is that birth control (as in, the pill) is still pretty expensive. Fortunately, most of mine is covered by insurance (I take the pill for a non-birth control reason), but I got it through my own Dr. My insurance is with my school and I was supposed to go to their nurses, and they won't prescribe the pill for contraceptive purposes. Like I said, this doesn't effect me, but for people that want to use the pill as birth control, it sucks.
 
U2Kitten said:


See, THIS is why I cannot stomach the 'I'm against it but won't deny anyone else the choice' philosophy. To me that's like saying, 'I'd never kill my spouse, but if OJ decides to kill his, that's his choice, who am I to judge?' There are some things that are just plain WRONG and that's why we have laws against them, including murder, robbery, even drunk driving. Why is this the only bad thing made noble and left to 'choice?' I also have a big problem with the fact that the same legal system that allows the killing of a baby for convenience also forces me to wear a seat belt in the privacy of my own vehicle? What kind of double standard is that? My body my choice, remember?




You are very right, U2Kitten. I guess the thing that gets me is the whole issue of Big Brother. But you are definetly right.

To be honest...I have seen most people want abortions for selfish reasons. I work part-time at a 24/7 hotline for women in crisis pregnancies. My basic job is to refer people to pregnancy resource centers in their area...these centers have a lot of different services and one of them is to provide factual information about abortion procedures and the risk but they don't provide or refer for them.

I have only recieved one call in the entire time of my employment from a woman who was preganant by rape (which is usually a large argument from people who are adamantly prochoice), and I've also had one call from a woman who was under the impression that her health would be an issue if she continued her pregancy--long story short, she sent a letter to our call center a few months later expressing her thanks and that she had given birth to a healthy baby....All other callers wanting abortion were ones who had situations such as they had cheated on thier spouse and didn't want to have the child if they could determine it wasn't his :| The pregnancy isn't the issue there--abortion or not that problem of deception and whatnot is still there.

Many women don't even really understand or know what the procedure entails and they are often considering abortion as a desperate choice and not an educated one....which makes me think there is something much bigger going on. Too many women are calling because they are afraid...afraid of what their SO is going to do or try to make them do...afraid of what their family or other people are going to think...There is something wrong with a society that is supposedly so modern and yet it's women still feel a sense of helplessness when it comes to situations like this.
 
Last edited:
Why is the "I'm against it, but others should be allowed" argument only used for abortion? If you truly believe that principle, then it should apply to other things, like child rape. A harsh example, but one that underscores that failings of the principle.
 
Golightly Grrl said:
Can someone please explain to me why it's selfish not to want a child or children?


It's not selfish to not want one.

But I guess, and I'm playing devil's advocate, why is adoption not an option or such a bad idea? Abortion can and does cause a risk to the woman and it's a final and permanent decision. One choice ends a life. Another choice can give a life a chance.
 
nbcrusader said:
Why is the "I'm against it, but others should be allowed" argument only used for abortion? If you truly believe that principle, then it should apply to other things, like child rape. A harsh example, but one that underscores that failings of the principle.
Right on :up:
 
starsgoblue said:

....which makes me think there is something much bigger going on. Too many women are calling because they are afraid...afraid of what their SO is going to do or try to make them do...afraid of what their family or other people are going to think...There is something wrong with a society that is supposedly so modern and yet it's women still feel a sense of helplessness when it comes to situations like this.

until we can rid society of this mindset that women's sexuality (and by extension, women in general) is something to be controlled, repressed, and swept under the rug, things are not going to get better. abortion is an imperfect means of dealing with a larger problem--women who end up pregnant against their will. in an ideal world, birth control would reliable and accessible to everyone, every child in the world would be wanted and loved, and men and women would treat each other with mutual respect and dignity. unfortunately, this is a long way from the world we live in. for now, i support women's right to choose to have an abortion, to follow through with the pregnancy, to keep the child, to give it up for adoption--whatever a woman sees fit for her circumstances. she knows what she can handle better than anyone else, and she shouldn't have any of these choices taken from her. until we come up with a better solution, this is how it is.
 
As many might use to stop someone from a suicide, the principle in my terms is that it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
 
Abortion causes emotional scars though. I've had women call me who had had an abortion as much as 20 years ago and they are still hurting from it. Obviously it still bothers them if they've carried it around with them for that long....

From what I've witnessed this isn't something that liberates women at all...it seems to do the opposite in fact.
 
Last edited:
I've heard that 9 out of every 10 women regret their abortions. I don't doubt it.
 
dandy said:


abortion is an imperfect means of dealing with a larger problem--women who end up pregnant against their will.


So their will had nothing to do with consensual sex? :confused: I'm beginning to side with Mac. on this point - with the miniscule number of rape and incest cases aside, women DO have the right to chose...to have sex or not. :shrug:
 
starsgoblue said:
Abortion causes emotional scars though. I've had women call me who had had an abortion as much as 20 years ago and they are still hurting from it. Obviously it still bothers them if they've carried it around with them for that long....

From what I've witnessed this isn't something that liberates women at all...it seems to do the opposite in fact.

I think this is a good point and although I'm pro-life, I've read some article about abortion clinics that offer care and couselling for months AFTER the abortion and I think this should be more widespread. They encourage women to properly grieve as one would if a healthy living child had died. I think a lot of the emotional baggage that results from abortion is because women feel they have to think of the aborted child as not a child, just a pile of guts, but their heart believes otherwise and needs to grieve.
 
Last edited:
starsgoblue said:
Abortion causes emotional scars though. I've had women call me who had had an abortion as much as 20 years ago and they are still hurting from it. Obviously it still bothers them if they've carried it around with them for that long....

i don't doubt that it does. some of my friends have been through it, and it was the hardest decision of their lives. it's not an easy decision to make, and i think most women innately understand this.

the pro-choice crowd doesn't think abortion is wonderful--they see it as a neccesary evil. when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, no choice is easy.
 
I disagree with the emotional scars thing. I have had an abortion and I don't regret it at all. I also know of at least five other women who have had them and nope, no regrets. Which sounds flippant, but that's because this topic gets way too judgemental about something that is an individuals choice.
 
dandy said:


i don't doubt that it does. some of my friends have been through it, and it was the hardest decision of their lives. it's not an easy decision to make, and i think most women innately understand this.

the pro-choice crowd doesn't think abortion is wonderful--they see it as a neccesary evil. when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, no choice is easy.

But again though...why does it seem like adoption is such a dirty word?

It's difficult on its own but the result are alot more postive.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


So their will had nothing to do with consensual sex? :confused: I'm beginning to side with Mac. on this point - with the miniscule number of rape and incest cases aside, women DO have the right to chose...to have sex or not. :shrug:


i don't think so. there is still rampant gender inequality that manifests itself in subtle ways, and women don't feel as empowered as they should to say no to sex from husbands or boyfriends or to insist on particular methods (i'm shocked, SHOCKED, at the resistance many men have to condoms) or lack the knoweldge of how to use birth control effectively because they were given abstinence-only education in school (had to throw that in there). i think it's a vast oversimplification to tell people to "just say no" to sex -- life doesn't lend itself to such pat answers.

this might be poor form of me, but i remember watching an Oprah show which gave a rather startling statistic -- something to the effect of nearly 70% of the women in this country are a man away from a welfare check. poor form in that's a rather dodgy way of making a point, but i think the spirit of that is intact.

let's educate and empower women, and you'll see abortions plummet. no one likes abortion, not least women who've had one, but that doesn't mean they aren't glad it was legal.
 
I see two different liberal stances on the issue:
1) against having it done in my own life, but want others to make their own decision
2) don't tell me what I can and can't do with my own body, reenie reenie reenie (Had to throw that in there too)
 
MissMoo said:
I disagree with the emotional scars thing. I have had an abortion and I don't regret it at all. I also know of at least five other women who have had them and nope, no regrets. Which sounds flippant, but that's because this topic gets way too judgemental about something that is an individuals choice.

I'm not trying to be judgemental at all, MissMoo. I hope you don't think I am.

I am only saying that from my experience at my job that I've had women call, often many years afterwards, expressing problems...and the problems didn't surface for awhile. I've also had a friend who went through this...

I don't think that every single woman who has one is going to experience that...or that it makes them flippant at all.
 
MissMoo said:
I disagree with the emotional scars thing. I have had an abortion and I don't regret it at all. I also know of at least five other women who have had them and nope, no regrets. Which sounds flippant, but that's because this topic gets way too judgemental about something that is an individuals choice.

Thanks for sharing this with us. It's a perspective we don't usually get.
 
nbcrusader said:
Why is the "I'm against it, but others should be allowed" argument only used for abortion? If you truly believe that principle, then it should apply to other things, like child rape. A harsh example, but one that underscores that failings of the principle.

:bow: :bow: :up: That's what I've been trying to express, WHY is this so justified? You'd never say it was a choice for OJ to kill his wife, or for Joe Blow to shoot the clerk at the liquor store, or even for Billy Bob to steal someone's car. If it's wrong, it's wrong for EVERYONE, not just those with a conscience! Since some people don't have a conscience, it is necessary to make laws against certain things.

Can someone please explain to me why it's selfish not to want a child or children?


Originally posted by starsgoblue

It's not selfish to not want one.

But I guess, and I'm playing devil's advocate, why is adoption not an option or such a bad idea? Abortion can and does cause a risk to the woman and it's a final and permanent decision. One choice ends a life. Another choice can give a life a chance.

That's it, it's not selfish not to want kids and I do hope people who don't want them don't have them. But I do feel it's wrong in a sick sort of way to just 'get rid of it' like it was yesterday's old newspaper or some old clothes you don't want. Again, my disgust at our throwaway society, the pets, the babies :sad:
 
Last edited:
nbcrusader said:
Why is the "I'm against it, but others should be allowed" argument only used for abortion? If you truly believe that principle, then it should apply to other things, like child rape. A harsh example, but one that underscores that failings of the principle.
There's a BIG difference here. Child rape involves someone using power to inflict pain, suffering on someone else. Abortion is your own decision, what YOU do to your own body.
 
u2lassie said:

There's a BIG difference here. Child rape involves someone using power to inflict pain, suffering on someone else. Abortion is your own decision, what YOU do to your own body.

Excuse me, but this isn't a haircut, nose job, tattoo or a body piercing. It's a life, someone else's life and body is involved- the baby! NO ONE should be able to choose death for another person. You inflict quite a bit on the unborn child, you rob him/her of life.
 
Last edited:
u2lassie said:

There's a BIG difference here. Child rape involves someone using power to inflict pain, suffering on someone else. Abortion is your own decision, what YOU do to your own body.

I guess if you skip the killing of a child part, abortion would be different.

Anyways, the principle is the same.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom