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Old 02-18-2003, 03:03 PM   #166
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Originally posted by STING2
HIPHOP, Where is the protest and outrage against Saddam? If Saddam would simply comply with the ceacefire agreement that he agreed to honor in 1991, there wouldn't be a problem. Saddam has had the opportunity to kill 1.7 million people over the past 24 years. Should the world community let Saddam achieve the capacity to kill 10 times that many in a matter of minutes? I don't think so. No one in history has been given more time to comply with resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules than Saddam.

Unfortunately, the one world leader that gets the biggest kick out this past weeks protest is Saddam. Probably makes him feel warm and fuzzy inside. It makes him believe that he can outlast the US efforts to disarm him there by making war even more likely. The only chance of Saddam disarming peacefully is if he truely believes he is going to be taking out.

For the record, I hate Saddam too. I have my doubts as to whether or not a war will actually kick him out. If I didn't have these doubts I'd support the war. I supported strikes in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan, so I'm not a total pacifist. Unfortunately, the strikes in the former Yugoslavia didn't kick out Slobodon Milosevic, as much as I wanted them to. This didn't happen until Serbia had a botched political election, which elected a new President, Kustinica, who took office, sacked the , and sent him to the Hague where he belongs. I hate dictators with a passion, but they are really hard nuts to crack. Truly disgusting.
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Old 02-18-2003, 06:35 PM   #167
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Originally posted by STING2
HIPHOP,

"How can you still support a President that damages the foreign diplomatic relations of your country? President G.W. Bush is doing evil to the United States. Is this for what heīs been elected? Is this the duty of an American President?"

"How can you support this President when around 100 million people worldwide in about 70 different nations worldwide protest against his policies? He is definitely doing no good to the perception of The United States."

First off, I do not see the President damaging the foreign diplomatic relations of the country. The USA has a lot of support around the world from various countries.

I've seen plenty of protest before and several million people marching is definitely a large number. But its a vocal minority that are actually in the streets. I respect them and their views but I disagree with them as does the President and the US Congress and the majority of American People.

Where is the protest and outrage against Saddam?

Unfortunately, the one world leader that gets the biggest kick out this past weeks protest is Saddam. Probably makes him feel warm and fuzzy inside.
I didnīt say he was damaging all the diplomatic relations to every country. That would be a hard task to follow. I think Germany, France, China and Russia (apart from NK and some Arab states which seems logical) are enough disturbance for those few months to say Bush has seriously damaged the foreign diplomatic relations.

But you are right, who knows what else Bush is able to destroy? Maybe he is able to disturb the diplomatic relations to Andorra too, what do I know.

Those are about the biggest protests ever, given the number of people and number of states theyīre part of. I donīt give that much for polls, you know, polls change every week.

100 millions of people should be more than enough, and you canīt seriously think that 3 billions of people (more of the half of the world population) should be on the street to acquire the right of some changes of foreign policy of the worlds most influential political leader. After all, around 100 million is a pretty good part (around 30%?) of the number of the US population, isnīt it?

Like I said, most part of the protesters are agreeing Saddam is cruel, but donīt agree with the way Bush wants to remove him from power.

Surely Saddam watches the protests with great delight and feels all "warm and fuzzy" inside?. Excuse me. I think he doesnīt give a shit. If heīs feeling warm and fuzzy for anything, its for the oil reserves "his" country holds - see next thread.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:11 PM   #168
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HIPHOP,

If Saddam doesn't give a shit about protestors why does his government encourage them to come to Baghdad? Why do they allow people to come into their country to be "human shields"? Saddam gives a shit, because he like you, does not want to see a US military invasion of Iraq to disarm him or remove him from power. Saddam knows the only thing that can disarm him or overthrow him is a US invasion of Iraq. Any attempt to block or frustrate US efforts to do this is something Saddam feels good about. Saddam is smart enough to recognize that if he can manipulate public opinion in the democracies around the world, he can prevent an invasion that will overthrow or disarm him. He goes after the governments to by offering favorable oil contracts to France and Russia, two members with veto power on the UN Security Council. Saddam and his sons probably spent part of last weekend watching the protest and laughing about what they think is their success in manipulation.

Perhaps it is the French, Germans, Russians, and Chinese that are damaging foreign relations.

The US congress and people will determine what the Bush administration decides to do. The Congress has already authorized Bush to use force. The current poll shows that a majority of Americans support the use of force with a coalition of the willing, even if the UN does not approve. More than 2/3s of Americans found Powells speach convincing. The number of people that protested in the USA was not a record in more along the lines of the vocal minority that normally engages in such protest.

I give elections and scientific polling more credence over unofficial crowd numbers. There was no way accurately to determine the number of people who protested last weekend, the vast majority of whom were outside the USA.

The USA and other countries have every right to do everything in their power to defend themselves. If Saddam does not disarm peacefully, the USA will lead a coalition of the willing to disarm him, in compliance with UN Security Council resolutions and the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire Agreement.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:40 PM   #169
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Like I have often said, attack is not the same like defense. STING2. You, being a military expert, should know the difference!
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:42 PM   #170
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And sure enough it must be the four other permanent members of the Sec Council who damage foreign relations - not the one permanent member that actually fights to persuade everyone to go to war. Very logical.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:45 PM   #171
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HIPHOP,

Iraq attacked Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel, its own people. It has failed to comply with the resolutions in regards to its invasion of Kuwait. It has failed to comply with the terms of the Gulf War Ceacefire agreement. There were several conditions that Iraq had to meet in that ceacefire agreement because of its previous violations. Enforcing Iraq's compliance with those conditions is not an attack, but act of self defense, especially in light of Iraq's previous behavior.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:47 PM   #172
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Actually there are two permanent members on the Security Council who still care about enforcing resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules. They are the USA and the United Kingdom. Nearly 1/4 of the British military has deployed to Kuwait.
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Old 02-18-2003, 07:59 PM   #173
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For the record, I'm not interested in white-washing Saddam Hussein. The guy is a crud. I'm not positive a war will take him out. The first one didn't of course. Two wars didn't take Slobodan Milosevic out in Serbia. He got his kicked out of Serbia after a botched political election, which elected a new president, and Serbian anger over a botched economy, etc, etc, got him sent to the Hague where he'd belonged for years. If I felt sure a war in Iraq would take the out of power I'd support it. There have been reports that the Kurdish leaders are angry over U.S. democratization plans. I can't vouch for the reliability of these reports; perhaps they are not true. The guy is indeed a .
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Old 02-18-2003, 08:43 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Enforcing Iraq's compliance with those conditions is not an attack, but act of self defense, especially in light of Iraq's previous behavior.
STING2, you disappoint me. I thought you were an expert on those matters...

Iīve posted another thread about this issue.
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Old 02-18-2003, 08:50 PM   #175
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I am disappointed that once again a thread has deteriorated into arguments about UN Resolutions.

FYM is starting to get very boring.

I am willing to bet a large McDonald French Fry that somehow the thread title *Awaits Another Pharmacological Disaster* turns into an argument about the UN Charter.

GIve it a rest everyone, my GOD this was supposed to be about BONO!!!!!
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Old 02-18-2003, 08:56 PM   #176
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Okay, maybe we can steer this thing back on topic...did anyone ever hear if Bono really was at the Dublin demonstration or was that tabloid rumor?
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Old 02-18-2003, 09:35 PM   #177
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
Okay, maybe we can steer this thing back on topic...did anyone ever hear if Bono really was at the Dublin demonstration or was that tabloid rumor?

I'm assuming it's true. If it hadn't been true it would have been denied, and it wasn't. I apologize for getting mixed up in the OT Iraq controversy.
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Old 02-18-2003, 09:39 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am disappointed that once again a thread has deteriorated into arguments about UN Resolutions.

FYM is starting to get very boring.

I am willing to bet a large McDonald French Fry that somehow the thread title *Awaits Another Pharmacological Disaster* turns into an argument about the UN Charter.

GIve it a rest everyone, my GOD this was supposed to be about BONO!!!!!

LMAO!!!! Again, my apologies for getting involved in an inappropriate discussion. I haven't been posting in this forum very long. I'm embarrassed.
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Old 02-18-2003, 09:41 PM   #179
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Originally posted by verte76



LMAO!!!! Again, my apologies for getting involved in an inappropriate discussion. I haven't been posting in this forum very long. I'm embarrassed.
Good grief...don't be at all. It's all good
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:07 PM   #180
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Good grief...don't be at all. It's all good
OK, cool. I'll figure out this forum eventually.
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