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Old 04-30-2005, 01:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
I don't Bono ever was a pacifist. I'm pretty sure he has the highest number of fights among the band.

I agree. In fact, I couldda sworn that somewhere he actually said he wasn't a pacifist, at least not in the popularly accepted understanding of the term. I think he wanted to show the distinction between himself and the vague, hippy, peace-'n-love types.

Bono maybe a great humanitarian, but I don't think he's one to just turn the other cheek either.
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:27 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Matthew Temblor
"Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience." Romans 13 3-5

Have you ever considered that Bono may be learning the nessesity of this scripture according to his faith, in a world full of gregarious people, that NEED to be governed?
St. Paul was summarily rewarded with his writing there by being executed by the Romans. His own death is a glaring example of the abuses of the death penalty.

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Old 04-30-2005, 02:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Temblor
"Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience."
Romans 13 3-5
Sounds like a cowards' charter. On that basis was the French resistance during the Second World War wrong? After all, they failed to submit to the Nazi authorities.

I like the description of Jesus that Iron Horse sometimes uses on here in his posts - "that rebel from Nazareth".

In terms of the original question, I would tend to agree with those who said Bono was never a true 'pacifist'. I'm sure if his family was attacked, he would defend them for example.
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:55 PM   #19
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I suppose it could depend on what you mean by pacifism in the first place. Political pacificism? I think Bono was politically pacifist in the '80's and then the Bosnia thing reared its ugly head and changed alot of people's concept of a just war. It was a just war, thus I could no longer be a complete pacifist because Milosevic had to be stopped.
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:03 PM   #20
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Bono says in the new Assayas book that he realized he was unequivocally NOT a pacifist in the days following the birth of his first child, and the discovery of his passionate, protective feelings towards her helplessness. It was then that he understood why people go to war. (He talks about this at length in that book. I can't find the quote right now, but if I have time I will post it later.)
He has also said many times that he has never found it easy to turn the other cheek, that what he finds attractive and admirable in Ghandi and Jesus and Dr. King is that he is so lacking himself in that regard.
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Old 05-01-2005, 01:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by biff
Bono says in the new Assayas book that he realized he was unequivocally NOT a pacifist in the days following the birth of his first child, and the discovery of his passionate, protective feelings towards her helplessness. It was then that he understood why people go to war. (He talks about this at length in that book. I can't find the quote right now, but if I have time I will post it later.)
He has also said many times that he has never found it easy to turn the other cheek, that what he finds attractive and admirable in Ghandi and Jesus and Dr. King is that he is so lacking himself in that regard.
Exactly. That's what I was trying to get to earlier. That and the fact that he's supposedly known for having a lethal head-butt.
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Old 05-01-2005, 01:53 AM   #22
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Financeguy,
Thanks for your rapid response.
umm no, I would not stone my own son or any other for that matter. Mainly because Christians have not lived "under the Law" of the "Old testiment" for two thousand years.
My comment's were specificly related to a person (Bono) that has professed his faith. You have not stated whether you are a person of faith in Christ. If not, I would not expect you to understand or agree with me.

Melon,
Facing execution or not, submitting to the authoritys is the teaching to believers. Paul was not the only one who followed Christ and faced execution because of it. It still happens today, many times everyday.
When Jesus was being arrested, facing crucifixion He said;
"Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?" Matthew 26: 53-54
He submitted to His OWN execution.

Some scriptures are often mis-stated or mis-interprited. For example Pink Floyd got one wrong when they wrote the lyrics for "Money" They wrote "Money, so they say, is the root of all evil today"
On the other hand U2 got it right in the song Desire....
"For the LOVE of money.."
Regarding "turning the other cheek". That scripture from Jesus is often mis-interprited. Jesus said if someone slaps you in the face, to "turn the other cheek" Yes.
Well, Two thousand years ago in that culture Slapping someone in the face was considered an insult. NOT an act of violence to harm someone.
Another note to that scripture is that He is talking to individual people, Believers in Him, to be precise.
He was NOT speaking to the Government or the earthly authoritys of men.

""Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ."
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Temblor
Melon,
Facing execution or not, submitting to the authoritys is the teaching to believers. Paul was not the only one who followed Christ and faced execution because of it. It still happens today, many times everyday.
When Jesus was being arrested, facing crucifixion He said;
"Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?" Matthew 26: 53-54
He submitted to His OWN execution.
If we just "submitted to authority" since the NT era, we'd still be serfs and you'd never even know that the Bible existed, outside of some imperialist clerics shouting Latin at you--which you wouldn't understand. And democracy? Hah! It would be just a long-dead relic of Ancient Greece that would never have heard of. The kings, on the other hand, would be telling you that God put them there due to His will ("divine right of kings"), and then they'd say that the Bible says so. Since you would know no differently (the Bible was solely in the hands of clerics until the Protestant Reformation), you'd have submitted to their authority most certainly.

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Old 05-01-2005, 10:48 AM   #24
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I have to agree with Melon. I think that submitting to authority only goes so far. If authority is contrary to God, civil disobedience is a virtue, I think.
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Old 05-01-2005, 11:21 AM   #25
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I agree with melon, we shouldn't submit to unjust tyrannies.
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