"Bobby" coming November 2006 - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-02-2006, 08:21 AM   #31
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I liked it. I had issues with some of the plot and actors, thought the Ashton Kutcher role and plot was completely ridiculous. I get it, drugs were a big thing then..but for me it was just a silly and out of place departure from the overall tone and message of the entire movie and was TV movieish. I half expected Ashton to come out and say he was punking someone. I thought Lindsay Lohan did a good job as did most of the rest of the cast.

But the overall message that so many things died when Bobby died and Jack and MLK were gone too does come through. As does the social situation back then. I saw it with my mother and she told me about that time, we have talked about it so often but I never get tired of hearing about it-and I always tell her how lucky she was to have lived through it.

The best part for me was Bobby's actual speech at the end and how extremely relevant it still is today. If anyone knows the title of that speech and can find it online, that would be great. I am looking and having no luck.

Stay through the credits to see all the photos

It could have been much better but I still recommend it.

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Old 12-02-2006, 10:30 AM   #32
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Yeah the speech at the end and the photos are what did me in.

I was wondering about the speech too...was it the one in Cleveland in 1968??
City Club of Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio April 5, 1968

Mr Chairmen,Ladies And Gentlemen

This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives.

It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours.

Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet.

No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason.

Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.

"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lost their cause and pay the costs."

Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.

Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home. Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.

Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.

For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.

This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

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Old 12-03-2006, 07:50 AM   #33
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I'm not sure but I think that's it, thanks

Another great speech

First Major Speech Given By Robert Kennedy After The Death Of His Brother

Scranton, Pennsylvania, March 17, 1964

Ladies And Gentlemen,

This is the day when legend has it that St. Patrick was granted three wishes by an angel of the Lord,in order to bring happiness and hope to the Irish.

First,that on this day the weather should always be fair and allow the faithful to attend Mass. Second,that on every Thursday and Saturday twelve Irish sould should be freed from the pains of Hell. And third, that no outlander should ever rule over Ireland.

Though I have not received the latest weather report I did speak to the Irish Ambassador and he said the weather was fair and that everyone attended church,although there was a little Irish mist.

And I have reason to believe the the twelve Irishmen have been regularly released from the nether regions as promised. Judge Nealon just told me he thinks that several of them are here tonight.

We need have no concerns over the third promise, in Ireland they are celebrating this day in freedom and liberty.

But you and I know that life was not always this good for the Irish,either back in the old country or here in America.

There was for example that black day in February 1847 when it was announced in the House Of Commons that fifteen thousand people a day were dying of starvation in Ireland.And you ay recall that Queen Victoria was so moved by this pitiful news that she contributed five pounds for the Society for Irish Relief.

So the Irish left Ireland.Many of them came here to the United States.They left behind hearts and fields and a nation yearning to be free.It is no wonder that James Joyce described the Atlantic as a bowl of bitter tears and a earlier poet wrote,"They are going,going, going and we cannot bid them stay."

This country offered great advantages,even then.But no one familiar with the story of the Irish here would underate the difficulties they faced after landing in the United States.As the first of the racial minorities,our forefathers were subject to every discrimination found wherever discrimination is known.

But ,many of the Irish were gifted with boundless confidence that served them so well. One was a pugilist from my native Boston. John L. Sullivan won the heavyweight championship of the world not too many years after the flood tide of Irish emigration to this country and in 1887 he toured the British Isles in triumph.

Some idea of Irish progress can be gathered from his cordial greeting to the Prince Of Wales, later Edward the Seventh. John L. said,"I'm proud to meet you. If you ever come to Boston be sure to look me up.I'll see that you are treated right."And referring to the Prince he later added with Irish generosity. "Anyone can see he is a gentleman.He is the kind of man you could introduce to your family."

Irish progress here has continued. It was some time ago the the late Fred Allen defined the "lace curtain Irish" as those who have fruit in their house when no one"s sick."

But it was less than nine months ago when President Kennedy in touring Ireland,used to ask the crowds he talked with how many had cousins in America. The usual response was for nearly every hand in the crowd to be raised. It was with great delight that he was able to reply;"I've seen them and they are doing well."And,so it is my great delight to be with you here tonight as we take a few moments to share the rich heritage of the Irish.

It's worth noting,I think that all the wealth of our legacy stems from a small island in the far Atlantic with a population one quarter the size of the state of Pennsylvania .

The Irish have survived persecution in their own land and discrimination in ours. They have emerged from the shadow of subjugation into the sunlight of personal liberty and national independence of nations across the globe.Irish soldiers are enroute tonight to help preserve the peace in Cyprus.
Indeed,Ireland's chief export has been neither potatoes nor linen, but exiles and immigrants who have fought with sword and pen for freedom around the earth.

We need but recall the heroic deeds of the "Wild Geese"the officers and soldiers forced to flee their native Ireland after the battle of the Boyne.

Fighting for the French,they broke the ranks of the English at Fontenoy. Fighting for the Spanish,they truned the tide of battle against the Germans at Melaazo.

And,other Irishmen in other years,going into battle with the Union Army-a green sprig in their hats-bore the brunt of the hopeless assaults of the the Confederate heights at Fredericksburg.Twelve hundred soldier of the Irish Brigade went into action the bitterly cold December day in 1862.Only 280 survived,as President Kennedy noted last summer when he presented the Brigade's battle-torn flag to the Irish people."Never were men so brave."General Robert E. Lee said of the Irish Brigade;

War batter dogs are we,
Gnawing a naked bone
Fighters in every land and clime-
For every cause but our own.

Today the Irish enjoy their freedom at a time when millions of people live in deprivation and despair under totalitarian dictatorships stretching from the Wall in Berlin to the troubled borders of South Vietnam.

The free Irishmen marching everywhere today to the tune of "O'Donnell Abu"and " The Wearing of the Green" are a dramatic contrast to the clattering of honail boots on darkened streets, the sound that marks the enslaved nations.

So,the first point I'd like to make arises from the traditional Irish concern for freedom-everywhere.I know of few in our land-and I hope none in this room-who would ignore threats to peace and freedom in far off places.
We realize as John Boyle O'Reily once wrote,that:

The world is large,when it wear leagues
Tow loving hearts divide;
But the world is small when your enemy
Is lose on the other side

No problem weighs heavier on the conscience of free men than the fate of millions in iron captivity.

But what is taking place on the other side of the Iron Curtain shoul not be the only matter of concern to us who are committed to freedom. I would hope that none here would ignore the current struggle of some of our fellow citizens right here in the United States for their measure of freedom.In considering this it may be helpful for us to recall some to the conditions that existed in Ireland from 1691 until well into the nineteenth century against which ore fore fathers fought.

We might remember for instance that in Ireland of 1691 no Irish Catholic could vote, serve on a jury or enter a university,become a lawyer work for the government or marry a protestant. And our pride in the progress of the Irish is chilled by the tragic irony that is has not been progress for everyone.

We know that is has not been progress for humanity. I know it because so much work of the Department of Justice today is devoted to securing these or comparable rights for all Americans in the United States in 1964.

There are Americans who-as the Irish did-still face discrimination in employment-sometimes open,sometimes hidden.There are cities in America today that are torn with strife over whether a Negreo should be allowed to drive a garbage truck, and their walls of silent cospiracy that block the progress fo others because of race or creed without regard to ability.

It is toward concern for these issues and vigorous participation on the side of freedom that our Irish heritage must impel us.If we are true to our heritage we cannot stand aside.

There are tow other areas of concern which I fell are of paramount importance and to which the Irish tradition speaks in ringing tones.One is the status of freedom in colonies and second our relationship to the underdeveloped nations of the world.

The greatest enemy of freedom today of course is communism a tyranny that holds it s captives in a vice like subjugation on a global scale.For nearly twenty years we and our Allies have striven to halt the Communist advance.But one of the weaknesses in our common front has been the restraint on freedom sponsored by our Allies and accepted by ourselves.

The conduct of our foreign affairs should be consistently based on our recognition of every mans's right to be economically and politically free. This is the American tradition. We were after all the victor in our own war for independence.We promulgated the Monroe Doctrine and the open door policy with their clear warnings to the colonial powers of Europe.

We gave self-determination to our own dependencies and for more than a century we opposed colonial exploitation elsewhere. But throughout all this we were still living largely in splendid isolation,removed from a direct control of world destiny.

This was changed by World War II.The frontiers of our national security became the frontiers of the world.We had found ourselves obliged to deal with the harsh facts of existence on a global basis.

For the sake of our own security we found our destiny to be closely linked with that of nations that maintained large colonial empires which they felt their ultimate security depended.In some of the underdeveloped countries we have found our destiny linked with ruling powers or classes which hold the vast majority of their people in economic or military subjugation.

It is easy for us to believe that the imperialism of the West was infinitely more preferable to the tyranny of communism. But the sullen hostility of the African and Asian colonial nations has shown us that not all hold the same view. The bloody struggles for liberty from the sands of Algeria to the steaming jungles of Indonesia and Vietnam prove that others would make the same sacrifices to throw off the yoke of imperialism today that the Irish did more than a half century ago.

And we have a longer way to go in helping the people of some other nations to free themselves from economic domination.This is a part of our National policy not only because humane but also because it is essential.Our future may depend on how well this understood throughout the world and how well it is understood that we still champion the quality of freedomeverywhere that Americans enjoy at home

I like to think as President Kennedy did-that the emerald thread runs into the cloth you weave today,that's these polices in which he believe so strongly and which President Johnson is advancing ,are the current flowering of the Irish tradition. They are directed toward freedom for all Americans here and for all peoples throughout the world.And I like to think that these policies will survive and continue as the cause of Irish freedom survived the death of"The Liberator,"Owen Roe O'Niell.
As you will recall, O'Niell was one of the great figures of Irish history. It was of the period after his death when the entire Irish nation was overwhelmed with grief that the following lines were written:

Sages in the council was he,
Kindest in the Hall,
Sure we never won a battle
-Twas Owen won them all
Soft as a woman's was your voice, O'Niell:
Bright was your eye,
Oh! Why did you leave us,Owen?
Why did you die?

Your troubles are all over
Your're at rest with God on high,
But we're slaves and we're orphans Owen!
-Why did you die?

We're sheep without a shepherd,
When the snow shuts out the sky-
Oh! Why did you leave us, Owen?
Why did you die?

So, on this St. Patrick's evening let me urge you one final time to recall the heritage of the Irish
Let us hold our hands to those who struggle for freedom today at home and abroad as Ireland struggled for a thousand years. Let us no leave them to be sheep without a shepherd when the snow shuts out the sky.Let us show them that we have not forgotten the constancy and the faith and the hope of the Irish.
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Old 12-03-2006, 10:32 AM   #34
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If I had to pick between Nativity and this, which one would win?
Stand up to rock stars!
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Old 12-03-2006, 10:34 AM   #35
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MATINEE!!! Or...you can always sneak into one
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Old 12-03-2006, 06:05 PM   #36
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I just saw it the ending of course I knew would be sad, and then all the pictures. I just sat there and cried. His speeches are so powerful.

Somehow I was hoping he'd make it through the kitchen, as if that would have changed reality.
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Old 12-03-2006, 08:50 PM   #37
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I'm ALWAYS like that with historic movies. I somehow convince myself that it will end different each time I watch them.
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:39 PM   #38
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just been too busy to stop & post here

My sis & I saw it Tues.We liked it a whole lot.

I definately disagree about the Acid trip sub-...we thought it was hysterical. [ was too afriad i'd have a bad trip to ever think about trying it back then, but i was fascinated about the fun/wonderour & silly trips alot of people had.
Heck.....Life's like that- when a serious sily/funny comment/situation can hapen inbetween serious stuff.

I remember the night he {i] that spech - [/i] breaking the news of Dr King's assaination to the mostly African-American neighborhood he had planned to visit/rally inanyhow.

I loved the ensemble casting. Sice i don't even have a strong internal picture of Lohan....idn't even know which her charactfter was till after. I think she did fine.

Of course i was wondering just how they wouuld pull off "The Inevitable .....it was done very well/ effectively.

I jolted back when it happened.

and earlier


My sis said we saw Sirhan earliwe than when i saw him..as he bumps into one of the ensemble cast as they go out the hotel doors he comes in. I gasped!

Of courrse I was crying during the whole time at it happened
I loved hearing the speeches.some I'vre heawrd later on ...after his murder. Other's I've read over time. I think there was a book of manty of his speeches.

Even more was seeing the footage of him in the crowds.

I was thinkinf og going to the Greek Parade that year b/c since he had anounced he would be there. But i wasn't that much of a par5ade goer then, and something was "off" that morning .so I didn't go. I said.Oh I'll campaighn for him in NYC primary /and after he wins the nomination.
SO i missed chance to see him.

He wasn't perfect.
It would have been a Interesting challenge to see further down the line how he would of reacted over time to the Feminst Movement/ Chice for Women {still 4 yrs away then :shudders:} & the GLBT Rights Movement.

But he became a man of ever-expanding circles of compassion, and that's something from his priviledged position.
ANd the USA has never been the same.

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