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Old 08-26-2005, 09:31 AM   #1
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Bible: James 1,22

Some interesting points have been raised about specific interpretations of the Bible, the "right way" for Christians, etc.

Do you think every Christian has the duty to act according to the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, like James says? The following verses come to mind:

Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Jam 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

Jam 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

(...)

Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Jam 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Jam 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

(...)

Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:25 AM   #2
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Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mathew 25:41-46


Seems like Jesus expects us to act accordingly.
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Old 08-26-2005, 11:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher

Seems like Jesus expects us to act accordingly.
Yes, I would agree.
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:00 PM   #4
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What for the Christians who believe in what Jesus says, believe in the scriptures, go to church and everything, but do not act like the Bible teaches us in everyday life? Who don´t share their food with the next beggar on the street? Who don´t work for peace and equality every single day, regardless of nation and race?

Practically, those lines say that we have the duty to act. I fear there are very many Christians all around the world who take their religion far too light?

Worse than that, how about politicians? How about our conservative Chancellor Schussel who is a Christian from his own words, but who passes laws which take the money from the poor, the disabled, the minorities, the students and the asylum-seekers and hands it out freely to the rich, to finance economy and new fighter planes?

Can one suppose that those people just lie when they say they are true Christians? Wolves in sheep´s clothes?
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:10 PM   #5
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"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 14:23-24


I believe that those who trully love Christ will obey his teachings. Not in a legalsitic, perfectionist way, but as an expression of their love and appreciation for him.

For those who profess Christ, yet live contrary to his teachings....well only God can know their hearts. It's not really for us to judge.
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
What for the Christians who believe in what Jesus says, believe in the scriptures, go to church and everything, but do not act like the Bible teaches us in everyday life? Who don´t share their food with the next beggar on the street? Who don´t work for peace and equality every single day, regardless of nation and race?

Practically, those lines say that we have the duty to act. I fear there are very many Christians all around the world who take their religion far too light?

Worse than that, how about politicians? How about our conservative Chancellor Schussel who is a Christian from his own words, but who passes laws which take the money from the poor, the disabled, the minorities, the students and the asylum-seekers and hands it out freely to the rich, to finance economy and new fighter planes?

Can one suppose that those people just lie when they say they are true Christians? Wolves in sheep´s clothes?
Do you do any of those things? It's easy to critise when you sit on the sidelines. At least many Christians try to do some of those things.
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:35 PM   #7
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Do you do any of those things? It's easy to critise when you sit on the sidelines. At least many Christians try to do some of those things.
True, many Christians do some of those things, including me. I can give you examples, but probably that would seem selfish, which I don´t want.

I am not critisizing without reason, I am questioning the commitment of those who don´t.

MaxFisher, you´re right, it is not for us to judge. On the other hand, if we can lead those who live contrary to the teachings, or those who don´t move a finger, to live their way more christly by making clear what God expects, it is a good thing, isn´t it?

What is legalistic/ perfectionist in your opinion, and how can one interprete the scripture any different when the expression of love and appreciation lies in getting to act?
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:10 PM   #8
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whats with all the hard to read old english?
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
What is legalistic/ perfectionist in your opinion, and how can one interprete the scripture any different when the expression of love and appreciation lies in getting to act?
Many people think they are going to heaven because they go to church, they give money to the poor, they are generally a good person, they obey the law, oppose abortion, etc. Christ makes it very clear that we cannot earn our way into heaven. So if someone is depending on their actions to get into heaven, well that is wrong thinking.

My point is that for a Christian, spiritual fruit like love, helping the poor, good works, etc. should be born out of a revolution of the heart by God. Good works are the natural outpouring of a Christian.

Spiritual fruit is the product of being a Christian.
Being a Christian is not the product of doing good works.
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
Many people think they are going to heaven because they go to church, they give money to the poor, they are generally a good person, they obey the law, oppose abortion, etc. Christ makes it very clear that we cannot earn our way into heaven. So if someone is depending on their actions to get into heaven, well that is wrong thinking.
So if someone's actions won't affect whether they go to heaven, then what's to stop a person living an utterly immoral life because they know all they have to do is ask forgiveness and they'll go to heaven?
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:20 PM   #11
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"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. " (AL I:40)
"Love is the law, love under will. "(AL I:57)
"There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. " (AL III:60)


- quotations from the works of Alesteir Crowley, British occultist.
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:20 PM   #12
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
So if someone's actions won't affect whether they go to heaven, then what's to stop a person living an utterly immoral life because they know all they have to do is ask forgiveness and they'll go to heaven?
.

Not to mention, aren't there also parts in the Bible that say actions do matter in getting to heaven? It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it, no real "right" or "wrong" answer?

Angela
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:22 PM   #13
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Originally posted by MaxFisher
For those who profess Christ, yet live contrary to his teachings....well only God can know their hearts. It's not really for us to judge.


How wonderfully.....convenient.
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:24 PM   #14
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Originally posted by financeguy




How wonderfully.....convenient.
Would you prefer that I go around judging other people?
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Not to mention, aren't there also parts in the Bible that say actions do matter in getting to heaven? It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it, no real "right" or "wrong" answer?
I think perhaps that was the point hiphop made with his first post in this thread. Not really knowing much about Christianity I'm probably not qualified to comment on this, but to me at least the verses hiphop quoted would contradict the "all you have to do is believe in god and you'll go to heaven" line.
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