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Old 05-27-2005, 11:52 AM   #31
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Haven't really followed the story but when I saw the headline and read the story awhile ago it just made me ill.
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Old 05-27-2005, 04:09 PM   #32
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I just saw this story on the nightly news here. It is sad.
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Old 05-27-2005, 04:23 PM   #33
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Ya know, this event reminds me of that movie "Brokedown Palace," I think it was a true story as well. It's really a terrible situation though. You have to be so careful these days. You let down your guard for a minute and it seems like theres impending disaster.
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Old 05-27-2005, 07:16 PM   #34
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Frankly I don't really give a piss about Shapelle, this is the "Dianification" of Australia whereby things get blown out of all proportion while others are ignored totally. One woman who had a weak defence that did not stand up to scrutiny is found guilty, she is sentenced to 20 years under Indonesian laws, but since she is white and young she gets the most sympathetic media coverage. She has right of appeal, a prisoner exchange program may be established in due time.

Trafficking drugs is not nothing in Indonesia, there are plenty of cases where Australians have been involved in the drug trade in SE Asia and in light of the inability of the defence to prove that the drugs were not hers or break down the procecutions case it is not unexpected.

All this talk of boycotts and not contributing in disasters is a load of crap, taking punitive action because of the process in the Indonesian judicial system (which I may add convicted the Bali bombers to death) seems haphazard.

How would Australians feel if an Indonesian was caught with drugs in their baggage entering Australia, was tried and convicted and then the Indonesian government and people were to demand that the verdict be overturned or the prisoner released?
Your theorising is truly remarkable, A_W. I do admire your idealism. Anyway, this isn't personal.
Your first paragraph. Dont be fooled by her looks. Give everyone a bit more credit, please. It could very well happen to be the ridiculous sentence for such a comparitive offence which is pissing some people off. You dont have to care, textbook worldview aside. Respect for their laws be damned, it is fucking ridiculous mate, in anyone's language.

The boycotts etc. Many actually feel genuinely concerned about travelling there now. You dont have to be guilty to go through what she is, you only need to be damned unlucky. If the good honest people of Indo suffer because the tourist trade weakens, then the blame eventually falls back on their legal system which failed a girl their tourist industry relies on.

And lastly, if an Indonesian was caught here, they'd most likely be deported, or slapped with a minimal sentence. There'd unlikely be any public outcry from over there, as life is pretty cheap. I dont like to stereotype, but do you honestly think it would be a mirror image reverse? If anything our legal system is the opposite of theirs and bordering on lax, rather than excessively severe. And the funnny thing, pot is just as readily available in each of our countries.
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Old 05-27-2005, 11:06 PM   #35
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I'm conflicted on this.

My gut feeling says she is innocent - there are too many inconsistencies in the case. The prosecutors refused to fingerprint the bag of marijuana as it is in "tampered with". These tampering claims are due to the handlers who discovered the drugs opening the bag. This raises a fundamental question - upon discovery, shouldn't the drugs be quarantined and fingerprinted immediately? Just about every legal system I know does this. Why allow the prime evidence to be tampered with? That is insane.

There are also now substantiated claims that baggage has been tampered upon leaving Australia. A major cocaine ring has recently been busted in Sydney. Whether or not the drugs were planted, only Schappelle knows for sure. Was there a drug smuggling ring active in Brisbane? It would seem yes there was and still is. Is she a vicitm of it? It's hard to say. Why would you try to take marijuana into a country where its local availability is almost legendary? Ask any Aussie under 30 who has been to Bali and they will tell you you can score drugs easily and cheapily. Why smuggle some in? There is talk Aussie ganga is better quality - but then why travel to Bali to smoke it? Stay in Australia! Weird.

Also the huge media attention meant the Indonesian G'ment had to return a guilty verdict. There was no other way. Innocent or otherwise, letting her go means every other person caught coming from any country could pull this "my baggage was tampered with" claim and tie up the courts.

Either way it is really sad.

There is talk of a prisoner exchaneg being set up.

Any prisoner exchange will be conditional that an Australian court cannot accept an appeal or reduce the term. There is no way they could agree to any other kind of program as the legal systems are so different.

What I think will happen is if she stays in Indonesia, a year or two down the track she can hope to get a Presidential reprieve. At the end of the day, Bang Bang will probably give a pardon - but it wont be for a while - she has been found guilty under Indonesian law, therefore for face-saving reasons she must "suffer" for a while.

This case, and especially the verdict has deeply altered the Australian/Indonesian political environment. The way the Howard government attempted to get involved via the Police Chief's letter about baggage smuggling was not appreciated - the judges made mention of outside factors interferring.

Either way she had to be found guilty - regardless of her guilt.

Surely the Corby family knew that - and any hope was false hope. I honestly don't think she was guilty from what I have read from both sides - yet no precedent was going to be made on an internationally followed drug case. Too high profile.

Finally, for those non-Aussie readers, trafficking 4.1kg of marijuana into Bali is as stupid as smuggling a joint into Amsterdam - it is futile, and ultimately the risks outweigh the benefits stupidly.

It raises a few conclusions -

A) She was an innocent drug mule. Seems likely, but questions remain again why transport a low financially yielding drug to an area awash with the drug? It's street value in Australia is so much higher and marijuana is easy to get.

B) She was blackmailed into carrying it. Seems a longshot. Numerous body language specialists and legal experts have gone over hours of hour testimony and interviews - all point to the fact that she strongly believes she is innocent - so either give the girl or an Oscar, or she genuinely had no idea.

C) She knew what she was doing and has strung a hwole country along. This raises the most disturbing conclusions - she is a lying drug dealer. I really want to think this is not the case. It seems so unlikely - but what if she is guilty?

The hardest thing today was watching Schapelle (I can never get the spelling right) just look destroyed as she is sentenced to 20 years - but major claps to her Mum who the judge told to shut up for calling him a dog and to f*ck off! Good woman! Let them have it!
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:44 PM   #36
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Question of the day: How dumb can Australia get?
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:50 PM   #37
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My I add my 2 cents?

Schapelle is guilty, end of. Proven in a court of law.
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:54 PM   #38
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Exactly.

I'd like to see Alan Jones & Ray Martin locked up for 20 years as well.
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:59 PM   #39
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Even if guilty, a 20 year sentence is a monstrous injustice for any and all forms of drug possession.

The correct sentence for canabis possession should be, nil.

I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:24 PM   #40
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I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
Dunno that its all "white people". Australia and Indonesia have a bit of history. I have been up in the mountains of Ubud, where the French, Dutch, etc hangout (rather than Tuban/Kuta/Legian where the Australians hang out,) and its more pleasant in Ubud.
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:40 PM   #41
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I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
How they welcome white people?!? If there's been any discrimination, I think it's been in reverse. Had she been an Indo national I'd say there's no doubt she'd be in the clanger for life - or worse. I think she's damn lucky to be white, Australian and female.

And I agree that 20 years is a crazy amount of time for pot (I'm all for the decriminalisation of the stuff). But I also think she's a complete and total idiot for trying to take a 4kg (9lbs for the Americans) bag of marijuana on a plane and into a foreign country. To make that decision, you at some point weight that risk up. She must have done this, I mean NO ONE is going to try and take even a single joint through foreign customs without thinking "What if I get caught? What will happen to me? Is it worth the risk?" Whether you agree with the severeness of the penalties in that country or not, she's submitted herself to that possibility. The risk to her was worth it, whether that was the fun of being stoned for the duration of her holiday, or the money she got to do it, or was going to get at the other end. Either way, she chose to risk it.

So, I've got no beef with people saying "Indonesia's pot laws are loony" and making a bit of noise about that - it's true. But all this "It's a travesty!!!!" "It's not fair!!!!" "Boycott the country!!!" "Give us back our tsunami aid!!!" is complete and total bullshit. It IS completely fair. Those are Indonesias laws - as stupid and archaic as they are - and she had a choice, and chose to risk it anyway.

Guilty. 20 years. Get over it.
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:48 PM   #42
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Earnie,

You bring up a point that has mystified me. 4 kilos is a HUGE item. The average newborn baby is just under 4 kilos. I'm quite stunned that someone would believe they could smuggle an object that heavy through customs.

The other stupidity in this case is why take drugs into Indonesia anyway? Im not into that lifestyle personally but I've been offered the "buy my carved wood box" deals before. Why would anyone need to take drugs into Indonesia?

What Im saying is "What was she thinking?"
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Old 06-01-2005, 06:54 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Even if guilty, a 20 year sentence is a monstrous injustice for any and all forms of drug possession.

The correct sentence for canabis possession should be, nil.

I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
Oh, God! On behalf of all Third World nations, I apologise for not according the right amount of esteem to one of your superior race! Next time, we'd better close two eyes not just one.


f.
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:06 PM   #44
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Oh, God! On behalf of all Third World nations, I apologise for not according the right amount of esteem to one of your superior race! Next time, we'd better close two eyes not just one.

f.
I never said whites were a "superior race".

As Beli pointed out, it probably has more to do with a history between Australia and Indonesia and if so, it is equally unacceptable if Ms Chapelle was discriminated against on the basis of her nationality as if she was discriminated against on the basis of her skin colour.

If a black person was discriminated against in a white country, for example, that would be equally unacceptable but frankly I will not keep my mouth shut for the sake of political correctness if I see something similar happening in an Asian or African country.

However, I think it is naive to think that there is no such thing as discrimination against whites in some countries - events in Zimbabwe in recent years being a case in point.

It might not be "PC" to point it out, but I've never been much of a PC advocate.
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:20 PM   #45
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1) She is guilty. Why can't this country deal with it?
2) 20 years is the sentence over there for a reason. If a nation feels so strongly about drugs, don't take them into the country. They have a right to put her away for as long as they like.
3) The silly cow deserves what she has coming, if guilty (which she is).
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