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Old 03-04-2008, 09:41 AM   #31
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No problem VP and Sean!! I'm excited about your idea VP and even more so about the baby, Sean!
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:00 AM   #32
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You're welcome to have a go at it (assuming you're being serious and actually have the time), although getting enough people reading the same book simultaneously might be a problem.
Agreed. A year or two ago I tried to start one, after some votes we agreed to read 1984. Then we posted all sorts of "yay! I'm excited! this is fun" and the thread mysteriously disappeared. I'd say it is worth trying again though.


Sorry to hijack your thread, Britt.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:39 AM   #33
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How do you fight the stereotypes that many people have about Christians, and how do those stereotypes impact your life?
A lot of my beliefs and convictions that have changed for me have actually been pretty recent. It was a gradual change. To this day, I don't know what was the real catalyst. I know that it was God I, but yet, I don't know why. It started with U2's music and then lead me to books such as "What's So Amazing About Grace" by PhilipYancey, "The Ragamuffin Gospel" by Brennan Manning, "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell and many others. It was through them that I began to question the wisdom of what I'd been taught under the mega-church prosperity gospel that I've grown up in. (My church has about 8,000 members and is very similar in terms of message to any church you'll see if you turn on TBN or something similar.) I began to realize that the focuses of most churches today, especially those of the TBN variety, are so contrary to the message of the Gospel and to much of the New Testament in geneseeral. I began to see how much of it was based on works as opposed to grace and how much was focused on gaining power and riches instead of focusing on loving and caring for people. Anyway, that's just a background of what changed in my life in case anyone was wondering what was the general cause for my differences with much of the Evangelical church. Btw, the 3 books I mentioned above, are all great starting points to look at a different take, so to speak, on Christianity. I would recommend any or all of them and many more I didn't talk about here. The Philip Yancey one is one of
Bono's favorites. I firs heard about it throuh him, and I'll be greatful forever. To answer your question, Mrs. S, the biggest way I fight agains the TBN sterotype is by genuinely trying to be different. I was your typical Christian teenager who's just a smaller version of your typical Christian TBN adult for most of my life. When I look back at that bubble now, being outside of it, I just feel a sense of disbelief, that I could've held those beliefs and been so convinced that I was right. I couldn't believe that I'd just missed the point, the first 18 years of my life. I couldn't believe how judgmental, how arrogant, how fake I'd become without realizing it. I still struggle with all of these things but now it's directed towards the church. It's something I want to get rid of so, I can hopefully, just really show them what unconditional love and acceptance is about, which is what Jesus is calling those of us who are Christians to. TBN Christianity, which includes, the church I grew up in, refuses to see reality as it is. That's why we've created churches that are one-stop Jesus shops. My church, for example, has a healthclub, a bookstore, and a cafe on the grounds. The idea is to get all the Christians together in all the Christian places running on the Christian treadmill, while listening to Christian music from the bookstore and then going for Christian coffee and Christian scones. It's ridiculous. This idea of creating our own perfect little world in order to ignore and condemn the real one is absolutely against the message of The Gospel. We can't try and live in our own bubble world and then decide to use law and government to make everything line up with our beliefs, which are only focused on 2 issues. I realized I had to begin to care about what God says is important; poverty, taking care of the sick, the war in Iraq, the environment, healthcare, civil/human rights, Darfur, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the federal budget and how it's being spent, education, and numerous other issues. I began to look at how I felt Jesus would respond to them, and I began to see it would be the opposite of how most Christians do. I have to make a choice now, every day, do I want to live in the lap of comfortable Christianity and not rock the prosperous boat or do I want to work with Jesus and really live the message of the Gospel which will be much more difficult, but to me, much more worth it. The short answer, I suppose is by just trying to love and accept all people without condition which goes agains current church and secular wisdom.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:49 PM   #34
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Hey. Whatever it takes. . .



Oh, and yes, our baby will be born here--at least that's the plan.
(pardon the momentary hi-jack)


there are quite a few parallels

it would be nice for your family to have Obama win in November
a few weeks after your baby is born

and believe it or not
this may sway my vote.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:27 PM   #35
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u2isbest...we sound a lot alike....I have read all of the authors you just mentioned and share many of your beliefs.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:29 PM   #36
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u2isbest...we sound a lot alike....I have read all of the authors you just mentioned and share many of your beliefs.
It's nice to meet you, call me Brittany
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:38 PM   #37
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Thanks My name is Megan. By the way, I checked out your journal and noticed that you attended Western University in Michigan. Do you live in Michigan? I'm a graduate student at Central Mich.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:41 PM   #38
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Thanks My name is Megan. By the way, I checked out your journal and noticed that you attended Western University in Michigan. Do you live in Michigan? I'm a graduate student at Central Mich.
Yup. I'm actually not at Western anymore. I'm in the process of transferring. I live in the southeastern part of the state.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:45 PM   #39
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cool..I just moved to Michigan this past summer. I noticed that you mentioned reading Bell...did you ever check out Mars Hill in Grand Rapids?
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:47 PM   #40
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cool..I just moved to Michigan this past summer. I noticed that you mentioned reading Bell...did you ever check out Mars Hill in Grand Rapids?
No. I wasn't aware of him yet last year when I was WMU. I just found about him over the summer. I'm about 3 hours from Grand Rapids now, so I'm hoping to eventually get over there one Sunday to check it out.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:53 PM   #41
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I just finished reading Velvet Elvis last night. His writing about 'binding and loosing' really fascinated me. Actually, I noticed while watching u23d that 'we win, we loose its perfect' was played during yahweh...I wonder if there is a connection...
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:54 PM   #42
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I just finished reading Velvet Elvis last night. His writing about 'binding and loosing' really fascinated me. Actually, I noticed while watching u23d that 'we win, we loose its perfect' was played during yahweh...I wonder if there is a connection...
Who knows? Rob Bell is a big U2 fan. I've read that book 2 times now, and I keep learing something new every time.
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:18 AM   #43
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Well, clearly I need to read this Velvet Elvis book . . .
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:20 AM   #44
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Originally posted by deep


(pardon the momentary hi-jack)


there are quite a few parallels

it would be nice for your family to have Obama win in November
a few weeks after your baby is born

and believe it or not
this may sway my vote.
Okay. . .this is how I'm going to predict who gets the Democratic nom. If it's a girl, it will be Hillary. If it's a boy it will be Barack. I'll let you know, probably in April, when we get the ultrasound.

I draw the line at naming him/her after either candidate though!
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