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Old 03-17-2005, 05:29 PM   #46
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I knew I should have put some money down on that guess!

Anyway, I was a little surprised when you stated that you're not evangelical, because you seem to identify closely with your denomination. I don't know a lot about the Christian Reformed Church in America, but here's what I do know:

1. Everybody's last name is Van der Something
2. They're all over Michigan and NW Iowa
3. They're big into Calvin
4. It's generally considered an evangelical denomination (for example, they're a member denomination of the National Association of Evangelicals).
So the question is...do you disagree with your denomination's "evangelicalism", or do you just feel like the term "evangelical" has been hijacked by "fundamentalists" and thus want to distance yourself from that label?
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:27 PM   #47
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Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase
I knew I should have put some money down on that guess!

Anyway, I was a little surprised when you stated that you're not evangelical, because you seem to identify closely with your denomination. I don't know a lot about the Christian Reformed Church in America, but here's what I do know:

1. Everybody's last name is Van der Something
2. They're all over Michigan and NW Iowa
3. They're big into Calvin
4. It's generally considered an evangelical denomination (for example, they're a member denomination of the National Association of Evangelicals).
So the question is...do you disagree with your denomination's "evangelicalism", or do you just feel like the term "evangelical" has been hijacked by "fundamentalists" and thus want to distance yourself from that label?
1. Yes, there are a lot of "van der XXXXX". My name is also Dutch, but does not have "van der".

2. Yes, right again.

3. Yes, most of what we believe has its roots in John Calvin's theology, although I personally believe people have stretched it quite far and consider myself to be a "true" Calvinist in that I believe in the theology of Calvin himself, not other theologians' reinterpretations or Canons, etc.

4. I'm not really an evangelical and I'm not sure where my denomination or church in particular stands as far as our "evangelicalism", but in my experience we were never taught "evangelical" traditions in my church or the Christian Reformed schools I attended. Maybe the Christian Reformed churches of my community are much different than the standard. As you can see on the denomination's website http://www.crcna.org/whoweare/belief...p?WhoWeAreMenu our churches are defined by the Belgic Confessions, Canons of Dort, and Heidelberg Catechism. I've never heard the word "evangelical" used to describe our denomination, but I suppose we could be a member of the organization you listed since there are some things/goals we have in common.
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:41 PM   #48
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Have you read Rick Warren's THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE? I ask this not because of the recent media attention but because of the Calvinist influence on your spiritual life and the fact that, although Warren doesn't come out and say it, it seems that Calvin's teachings on predestination of one's entire life are a huge influence on Warren's message.

~U2Alabama
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Old 03-19-2005, 10:01 AM   #49
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Originally posted by U2Bama
Have you read Rick Warren's THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE? I ask this not because of the recent media attention but because of the Calvinist influence on your spiritual life and the fact that, although Warren doesn't come out and say it, it seems that Calvin's teachings on predestination of one's entire life are a huge influence on Warren's message.

~U2Alabama
No, I've heard all about it but not read it. I should note that many people misunderstand Calvin's idea of predestination though. I prefer to read Calvin's writing on predestination than someone else on Calvin's predestination.
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:25 PM   #50
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


No, IMO God hates no one. Even if being gay is a sin (I'm not saying it is or I think it is, but some people do), who are we to judge one sin against the next? I've never understood how some churches will basically shun gay people, but ignore the alcoholics, porn addicts, and greedy stock brokers at the same time. It's very hypocritical, very judgemental, and just makes "Christianity" as a whole look rediculous.
Since when is being sick (an addict) akin to being greedy? The very definition of addict means that you are not in control. What kind of church scorns the sick?
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:05 PM   #51
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Since when is being sick (an addict) akin to being greedy? The very definition of addict means that you are not in control. What kind of church scorns the sick?
Greed is an addiction just like alcohol, drugs, sex, you name it. Churches should scorn no one.
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Old 03-19-2005, 05:03 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


No, I've heard all about it but not read it. I should note that many people misunderstand Calvin's idea of predestination though. I prefer to read Calvin's writing on predestination than someone else on Calvin's predestination.
I would like to read Calvin's writings on predestination myself, to see just where it does call in with the Warrens and the Presbyterians in this part of the U.S. But as I mentioned, Rick Warren's book does not claim to base itself on Calvinist thought.

~U2Alabama
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Old 03-19-2005, 08:15 PM   #53
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Originally posted by U2Bama


I would like to read Calvin's writings on predestination myself, to see just where it does call in with the Warrens and the Presbyterians in this part of the U.S. But as I mentioned, Rick Warren's book does not claim to base itself on Calvinist thought.

~U2Alabama
Yes, and I'm not picking on you, I'd like to just use this as an example of why people often have such negative views of Calvinism - because they're reading things that aren't truly Calvinist and making incorrect assumptions. I've met plenty of people who think Calvinists believe that God picks and chooses who exactly to save and not save, or that every decision you make is controlled by God. These aren't true of Calvinism.
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