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Old 09-29-2006, 10:46 AM   #31
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Irvine!!!! DC - Green line represent what what!
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:48 AM   #32
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Irvine!!!! DC - Green line represent what what!


i am on the Green Line. every morning.
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Old 09-29-2006, 11:43 AM   #33
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It seems to me that many posts in this thread are defining feminism as equal rights for men and women?

I guess I've always understood feminism to be something above and beyond equal rights, like women need certain things more than men and certain things less because they are women and because it is somehow owed to them. In this sense, I've never been much of a feminist because arguing that I deserve special treatment because I'm a woman kind of succombs to the whole stereotype of being a lesser person and not being able to fend for myself.

I believe in equitable, not necessarily equal, rights. For example, women's restrooms need more stalls than men's. To me, this is more common sense speaking than "feminism". I don't have this "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" attitiude that I see coming (usually unintentionally) from most of the feminists I know.
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Old 09-29-2006, 12:24 PM   #34
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
It seems to me that many posts in this thread are defining feminism as equal rights for men and women?

I guess I've always understood feminism to be something above and beyond equal rights, like women need certain things more than men and certain things less because they are women and because it is somehow owed to them. In this sense, I've never been much of a feminist because arguing that I deserve special treatment because I'm a woman kind of succombs to the whole stereotype of being a lesser person and not being able to fend for myself.

I believe in equitable, not necessarily equal, rights. For example, women's restrooms need more stalls than men's. To me, this is more common sense speaking than "feminism". I don't have this "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" attitiude that I see coming (usually unintentionally) from most of the feminists I know.
I didn't realise feminists went round saying "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" - i thought they said things more along the lines of 'men and women deserve equal treatment, in the workplace and out of it' etc.
Or am i wrong?
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Old 09-29-2006, 12:27 PM   #35
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I didn't realise feminists went round saying "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" - i thought they said things more along the lines of 'men and women deserve equal treatment, in the workplace and out of it' etc.
Or am i wrong?


that was my understanding.

i think a feminist might argue that women have certain needs that aren't historically addressed -- one example, needing well lit paths and visible phones on college campuses, or that working mothers might have need of a lactation room at their places of business. stuff like that.
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Old 09-29-2006, 12:31 PM   #36
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Well, to get to the original question, yes, I do believe men can be feminists. They may not claim they are feminists, but they certainly prove this in their actions and deeds.

Bono, to me, seems like a feminist. He's married to a smart, sharp, kick ass woman and is very proud of her accomplishments. There are men women in the U2 organization who are doing a lot more than answering phones and fetching coffee. And I'm sure Bono wants his daughters to have the same opportunities in life as his sons.

And women can be major anti-feminists and mysognists. Take Dr. Laura and Phyllis Schlafly-please.
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Old 09-29-2006, 12:42 PM   #37
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Bono, to me, seems like a feminist. He's married to a smart, sharp, kick ass woman and is very proud of her accomplishments. There are men women in the U2 organization who are doing a lot more than answering phones and fetching coffee. And I'm sure Bono wants his daughters to have the same opportunities in life as his sons.
I wonder if Bono actually considers himself a feminist though? I hope so, I have a greater respect for men that do.
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:09 PM   #38
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And women can be major anti-feminists and mysognists. Take Dr. Laura and Phyllis Schlafly-please.
So feminism is monolithic in structure and thought, with a strict orthodoxy, and a code of purism that doesn't allow for dissent?
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:14 PM   #39
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So feminism is monolithic in structure and thought, with a strict orthodoxy, and a code of purism that doesn't allow for dissent?
Have you ever read anything about or by either of these two women? Schafley's whole shtick is that women who have careers are destroying America. And we just had a whole thread recently on Dr. Laura you ought to check out.

It's not that they are violating some non-existent narrow code you have made up in your mind. They don't believe in the core of what feminism is about.
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:37 PM   #40
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Attorney and career activist Phyllis Schafley? Guess she's destroying America. Or is it only other women's careers who are destroying America? Oh, yeah. I forgot. Her husband said it was OK.

That being said, even childless, there's nothing I'd rather than not to have to work on the outside for a living. If she'll support me, I will gladly leave the workplace.
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:45 PM   #41
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Originally posted by partygirlvox


I wonder if Bono actually considers himself a feminist though? I hope so, I have a greater respect for men that do.
I think I read a somewhere Bono saying he was a feminist...and then referencing the "woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" lyric in tttyaatw.
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:46 PM   #42
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i am on the Green Line. every morning.
i'm from columbia heights
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:49 PM   #43
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Originally posted by INDY500


So feminism is monolithic in structure and thought, with a strict orthodoxy, and a code of purism that doesn't allow for dissent?
Schlafly is no feminist; she's a hypocrite, a mysogynist, and a homophobe.

She doesn't dissent; she loathes.
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Old 09-29-2006, 02:14 PM   #44
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Originally posted by redhotswami


I think I missed the post you are responding to...but are you referring to single sex education?

Actually the danger right now is the current education system. It has been proven many times over that women & men do better in single sex classes. AND, research has also shown that the sooner the sexes are separated (like, in first level education), the better, due to the nature of the interactions between them.

Now, reforming the system to promote SSEd might result in again a separate but equal problem...

Anyway, sadly it appears as though women's colleges may diminish. Many are at least considering going co-ed...and Randolph Macon Woman's College, one that definitely stood out, has ultimately decided to do so.

Oh and by the way, the english dictionary actually defines feminism as supporting equal rights (not just promotion of women), and is not limited to sex, but also includes race and others...I wasn't expecting that definition!
I think that SSEd is a fine choice for a proper education, I myself was in a state school and got a co-ed; I found that there were times when the subject matter - especially in the humanities subjects was skewed and really disengaged me; the danger is compromising co-ed education by emphasisng methods that work well for girls at the expense of boys; and a lack of male teachers seems like it could be part of that.
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Old 09-29-2006, 02:15 PM   #45
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Originally posted by redhotswami


I think I read a somewhere Bono saying he was a feminist...and then referencing the "woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" lyric in tttyaatw.
Aah yes I had forgotten about that! It makes Bono more attractive, knowing this.
And I love that quote anyway, so true.
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