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Old 03-20-2006, 11:41 PM   #16
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No, you elect to pay insurance to a private insurance company - you cannot elect to not pay taxes and not recieve state benefits.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:57 AM   #17
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No, you elect to pay insurance to a private insurance company - you cannot elect to not pay taxes and not recieve state benefits.
Um, no here in the states you can't drive without insurance.

Yes other insurances are "optional", but mostly in theory. Just like taxes.
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:04 AM   #18
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The argument for minimum level third party insurance probably falls under public good ~ in fact it is a guarantee of restitution due to property damage against the third party thus logically consistent.

In this case you have a parade for an ethnic/nationalist group that is being subsidised with public money. It is not there to protect anything. Here in Melbourne we have had to put up the bloody Commonwealth (Empire) Games, it costs more money than it will bring in, there is no competition in the games (Australia leading against England 117 to 55 medals, 44 gold versus 18). In the case of the games it is a worse waste of public money. In the case of a parade it still isn't what should be done with public money, what should be done is tax cuts.

If they don't want gays then they should fund it themselves, if somebody wants a gay inclusive rally then they should have the right to hold one (and if it gets public money then it has to be able to include gays).
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:05 AM   #19
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Well said, BVS!!!!
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:30 AM   #20
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That's what I'd like to know. Maybe I'm just being incredibly dense here, but I'm really not seeing a connection...
I'm not sure one was ever articulated, or even seriously suggested.

But it makes a good attention grabbing headline.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:35 AM   #21
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Originally posted by the iron horse
[BPeople expression their religious views?

I'm sick of intolrence. [/B]


when a religious belief becomes tantamount to intolerance, it's the religious belief that has to find another form of expression -- i'm so sick of this, people using religion to justify their bigotry and then crying "religious discrimination" whenever someone calls them on it.

my right not to be excluded and discriminated against and made to feel uncomfortable on the basis of an immutable characteristic than harms no one absolutely trumps your "right" to religious expression.

just replace the words "gay" with "black" or "baptist" and see how it sounds.

also, why do you think that voting libertarian gives you some sort of free pass?
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:39 AM   #22
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I'm not sure one was ever articulated, or even seriously suggested.

But it makes a good attention grabbing headline.
Ummm. This dude is saying you wouldn't allow a KKK member at a black rally nor a Nazi at a Jewish rally, and you shouldn't allow a gay person at a catholic parade. This is a PRETTY CLEAR connection. All equating to some sort of "evil" nature towards a peaceful gathering. This dude is messed up. And an obvious Bigot.

Just another weak, homophobic man who thinks a gay man is going to have sex with him at his parade. It's 2006. Open up your mind a little. Use some common sense.

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Old 03-21-2006, 11:38 AM   #23
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Ummm. This dude is saying you wouldn't allow a KKK member at a black rally nor a Nazi at a Jewish rally, and you shouldn't allow a gay person at a catholic parade. This is a PRETTY CLEAR connection. All equating to some sort of "evil" nature towards a peaceful gathering. This dude is messed up. And an obvious Bigot.

Just another weak, homophobic man who thinks a gay man is going to have sex with him at his parade. It's 2006. Open up your mind a little. Use some common sense.

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It is an analogy to allowing people with opposing viewpoints at the same event.

It is not an analogy that gays "are like" the KKK or the Nazis.

Claiming the connection is a cheap way to demonize one side of the argument - instead of discussing the issue.

Groups are not permitted to march in parades all the time. How an organizer "gets to" determine the participants will vary depending on a number of factors, specifically government involvement in the event.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:02 PM   #24
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True. But it is "equating" them to the KKK. It is putting them on the same level.

And why would this guy use such a strong example, such an extreme example to make his point if he didn't in some way equate these groups with gays.

And come on man, they were trying to march in the IRISH St. Patty's Day parade. It's not like they were trying to march in the "Straight Men and Women Only Invited Parade"

Come on....
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:12 PM   #25
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Originally posted by tackleberry
True. But it is "equating" them to the KKK. It is putting them on the same level.

And why would this guy use such a strong example, such an extreme example to make his point if he didn't in some way equate these groups with gays.

And come on man, they were trying to march in the IRISH St. Patty's Day parade. It's not like they were trying to march in the "Straight Men and Women Only Invited Parade"

Come on....
Why did YOU pick the KKK side of the equation?

The analogy was with the KKK and African Americans. You decided that the gays were the same as the KKK. Dunleavy didn't make that connection.

There is no suggestion that the gay group seeking to participate in the parade is anything like the KKK - nor should there be, nor could there be.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:18 PM   #26
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


It is an analogy to allowing people with opposing viewpoints at the same event.
And a very poor analogy at that.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:21 PM   #27
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Why did YOU pick the KKK side of the equation?

The analogy was with the KKK and African Americans. You decided that the gays were the same as the KKK. Dunleavy didn't make that connection.

There is no suggestion that the gay group seeking to participate in the parade is anything like the KKK - nor should there be, nor could there be.
I am not trying to amplify what is already present. Dunleavy is essentially saying in this article, that allowing gays to march in the St. Paddy's day parade is the same as letting the KKK march in a black parade.

I don't know what you see in this article, but that's what I see, and I would assume that's what most of the folks who posted in this thread see.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:36 PM   #28
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Here in Melbourne we have had to put up the bloody Commonwealth (Empire) Games, it costs more money than it will bring in, there is no competition in the games (Australia leading against England 117 to 55 medals, 44 gold versus 18).

yes, your women's swim team is tearing shit up, they've been amazingly impressive this week and just obliterated the world record in the relay.

the men are missing Hackett and Thorpie, however.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:38 PM   #29
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And a very poor analogy at that.
That is true. While I am not Irish, I do not see the same visceral reaction of fear/hatred as you do when you mix the other groups mentioned.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:38 PM   #30
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Why did YOU pick the KKK side of the equation?

The analogy was with the KKK and African Americans. You decided that the gays were the same as the KKK. Dunleavy didn't make that connection.

There is no suggestion that the gay group seeking to participate in the parade is anything like the KKK - nor should there be, nor could there be.


wrong. he's basically given us an SAT analogy:


the KKK is to African-Americas as _______ are to Irish Catholics:

A) homos
B) gays
C) homosexualists
D) lesbians
E) the English
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