Am I the only one who can't stand hardcore feminists?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
My fiance'e is a feminist.
Not hardcore but a feminist.

Strong minded, bright and elegant.

The way our Creator wanted all ladies to be I believe.

She folds my socks quite well also:sexywink:

diamond:wink:
 
My aunt is a vice president at a top 20 company in the U.S. My uncle stays at home, raises the kids and has a part-time job as a substitute teacher. My fiance and I spent last Wednesday night folding laundry. He also does the dishes in our house except when he cooks. I do them those days. and he can sure as hell tell you that I don't make cakes very well.

Why is feminism a bad word? I'm proud to say I'm a feminist. It makes me sick that half the people in my office are women yet only one of the top ten editing positions is held by a woman. It makes me mad to know that if I wasn't in a union, I would not be making as much money as my male counterparts.

At home, I hang the pictures, I rebuilt the futon when we moved, I grabbed as many boxes as my fiance when we had to take them up flights of stairs. I do the errands while the fiance is at work. And I am grateful when he heads to the grocery store while I'm working.

There is nothing wrong with me working. There is nothing wrong with me staying at home to raise my future kids if I ever want to. There is nothing wrong with me believing my opinion matters. And while I may get high strung under pressure, that's my personality and not because I'm a woman. There are plenty of men who have punched holes in walls or yelled under pressure but no one ever calls them "emotional".

Yes, I do like having an occasional door opened for me. Yes, I do occasionally try my hand at making dessert. But that's my decision and not because society has told me to do that. Feminism is not only believing that women are equal to men. It's believing that women have the choice to NOT do these things if they choose to.

And yes, I know men and women are physically different. There are definite physical hinderences women face. But in 100 years, women are expected to run faster than men because their physical development at this point is at a higher percentage than men. Besides, how many men do know that have survived passing a watermelon through their rectum? A woman's tolerance for pain is much higher than men or your mother would have never given birth to you.

And you know who taught me all this? My mother AND my father.

end of the rant of someone who believes there is nothing hardcore about being a feminist.
 
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars, my respect for you went up eleven notches with that comment. :up:

Like capitalism, the playing field for the genders isn't level. It seems fair go, but it's not. Women can get the job that they love, they can fight for equal pay and respect, etc, but they have to struggle ten times as hard as their male counterparts. A woman has to be outstanding in her job as, say, manager whereas a mediocre male would obtain her job easier. Anyone read New Scientist lately? where there was a groundbreaking study illustrating this very point that women in the field of science aren't being promoted as much as the men - this is ironic considering that the number of females are increasing in this field. This is just one example that you can extrapolate to other industries.

That said, I think the ones who give women grief are often women themselves and not the men. Women beat each other down, they can be nastier than men, they pressure fellow females into conforming to their roles in society/family/work, women pressure other women into finding a financially secure husband, girls who want to be rockstars are encouraged to learn how to cook instead, women frown upon other women who don't feel like crossing their legs when they sit, women expect other women to be "lady-like", bla bla bla. hiphop is right, women are still operating in a man's world, according to the men's rules.

To the person who started this thread (I forget your name): I used to be a female who hated hardcore feminists, too, but after informing myself and being educated by some reasonable women who proclaimed themselves feminists (to other people, they'd be labelled "hardcore feminists"), I completely changed my view.

Feminists who think that insulting all men is ok, and who assume all men are machoists trying to prove themselves, are wrong. The main thing you have to keep in mind is that the playing field isn't fair to begin with.

foray
 
It's also important to remember that society likes to focus on the more radical aspects of any social movement, in order to disguise the reality of the struggle.

So what feminists do you hear about? The ones who felt the ride "Pirates of the Caribbean" was sexist and needed to be changed.

You hear about the woman who believes the requirements for a male-dominated field should be altered so she can take part.

You DON'T hear about your average, every day woman who simply believes she should be able to work, be paid and promoted as she deserves, play the sport she wants to play, wear the clothes she wants to wear, etc.
 
Thanks iacrobat, SD :wink: and foray.

iacrobat, I never heard of Wendell Berry. But maybe I´ll read some.

foray, eleven notches? hehe .) Excellent post.
 
I never said I don't like feminists. I said more than once that I believe in totally equal opportunity. I just hate the ones who act like battleaxes when you try to treat em well. That's what I meant by hardcore.
 
shart1780 said:
And another idiotic thing feminists think: They think they're equal to men in every way. Again, BS. Men and women have different qualities physically and mentally. It's just how we were created. Men are physically stronger and they always will be. Yeah of course there's some exceptions, but very rarely. Also, most men are more level headed than women. This is true.

Is this a bad thing? No. Women are better at ALOT of things. Important things. My dad could never have raised my brother and I like my mom has. He's better at what he does, she's better at what she does. Different is good. Not everyone is the same. Just because women aren't big and powerful doesn't mean they're unimportant or insignificant. I'm tired of this mentality that you have to be an overbearing leader to be important. It's simply not true. Heck, in the Bible it says the greatest among us are the servants. Not saying woman should be servants of course. Just making a point.

My girlfriend appreciates my courtesy very much, as do most non-crapheaded... I mean feminist females. She'll do girly things for me that I appreciate very much. You know, baking me cookies, making sandwiches for us etc etc.. A feminist friend of hers is constantly getting on her back telling her that that's what stupid, old-fashioned ditzy girls do. No... that's completely stupid. Girls are good at this stuff, and guys like me absolutely love it. I love it when she makes me cookies. It's more than just cookies to me, it's extremely considerate of her. It's not wrong for girls to cook or try to please their boyfriends, you stupid feminists.

Shart -- read what I have bolded from your first post. Men are level-headed? Then why did a Yankees pitcher put himself on teh disabled list by punching a hole in the clubhouse wall? Your father couldn't have raised you the way your mother did? Last time I checked, both of my parents raised me. The Bible says the greatest among us are the servants? If you're not saying women are servants, what are you saying by quoting that passage? Girls are good at baking cookies and making sandwiches? Not all the girls I know -- hell, I tossed a cake in the trash two weeks ago when it came out like crap. Oh, but since I'm the girl, I baked the cake.

This is why I have a problem with your post. You say you only hate the hardcore feminists, but your posts is full of stereotypes. Your mom raised you better than your dad, girls are good at cooking. Don't you see that that's offensive? I may be able to make cupcakes, but it's not because I'm woman -- it's because I read the directions on the box. You too can make cupcakes by reading the box. Oh wait, men don't read directions. Well then, nevermind.

I understand you're trying to say that if a woman WANTS to bake cookies, no one should tell her its too girly. But dude, you really need to reexamine the words you use to support your argument and stop falling into the stereotype syndrome. Would you like it if I said your opinions were typical of men who are threatened by women in this world? Probably not, so don't go making stereotypes about my cooking and child rearing skills. I have a bachelor's degree and master's degree and work for one of the best news organizations in this country at the age of 27 and I didn't get here because I made cookies for the office. And I didn't have a emotional hissy fit when I passed over for a job because I'm a woman -- I had a hissy fit because I was better qualified then the people who kissed the men's asses in my office to get ahead of me.
 
Last edited:
One of my male co-workers at the place I used to work broke a phone when he slammed the receiver against the wall during one of his temper tantrums. :ohmy: I've never seen one of my female co-workers behave that way, despite the stress many of them are under.

As for women who get mad if you hold a door open for them - I've never met a woman who didn't like that. I know I like it - I don't care if a guy does it for me or another woman - it's just a general act of courtesy. And if I happen to get to the door first, I always hold it open for whoever is behind me.

(Edited to add I consider myself a feminist and am proud of it!)
 
Last edited:
Re: courtesy/ chivalry

shart17etc, I see what you mean about women who seem ungrateful when you are chivalrous toward them. Most women I know like it. Some see it as unnecessary.

For me, if it's about courtesy, I'm ok. Like if the person is holding the door for me or carries my luggage. That's something I would do for my girl friends as well, to make them feel welcome. If it's about chivalry i.e. something the man would do for me but not to his fellow males, then I think it's unnecessary and couldn't care less, because to me it shows that he's more interested in drawing chicks to him. My ex, for instance, recently picked up all these chivalrous moves so he could impress the ladies. Me, I prefer more realness and sincerity, and I've always been this way even before I realized I was a feminist.

foray
 
The first thing I thought of at the men-more-level-headed comment was Bono and all the PM women...
 
Shart...

I appreciate another person holding a door for me, as opposed to letting it slam in my face, whether they be a man or a woman. Likewise, I will hold a door for whoever is behind me, man or woman. It's common courtesy.

I agree that some feminists go overboard, take offense too easily, etc...Can't this be said for any group or movement?

But I do take some offense when you imply that women are simply better at cooking, child-rearing, and "serving," while men are more "level-headed." It's culture and society that have bound women to such roles...not that there is any problem with a woman who decides to work part-time, or be a stay-at-home mom if they can afford it. My mom worked full-time when I was a kid, as did my dad, but I know they BOTH would have loved to spend more time with us, and they BOTH did an excellent job raising us.

As far as the "level-headed" comment, I know you've already taken some shit for that, BUT:

I believe there has actually been research done to suggest women have a better grasp of their emotions than men, in general. Anger, at least.

But then you get into the whole Nature vs. Nuture thing. Where I grew up, most of the girls did fit your typical girly-girl, cry a lot, not so smart stereotype. IT'S HOW THEY WERE RAISED. Their mothers taught them to be that way; their fathers taught them to be that way. The problem we face now is that, while society (theoretically) allows women to hold the same positions as men, our ingrained culture doesn't encourage it, in some cases, or provide the base for it. If you put a city slicker man and a guy raised on the farm in Wyoming or wherever in the middle of the wilderness, chances are the city slicker will have a harder time making it, and will be more likely to "break down" or cry. Now, say a child of two of your typical "city slickers" and a child of two farmers were switched at the hospital. Do you think the kid born to city slickers but raised "tough" in the country will be more adapted to the situation, despite his genes? Most likely.

I'm really sorry for the confusing metaphor, but it's the best thing I could think of to relate nature vs. nuture...The point remains that a woman raised to be "inferior" will act accordingly. A girl raised by parents who respect her and never try to force any roles or responsibilities on her because she is female will typically not fit those stereotypes.

Yeah, men are physically stronger than women. But we're past the Industrial Age and into the Information Age. Physical strength is increasingly less important, and will continue to decrease in relevance. If there are any women who are upset or in denial over this simple fact, that men have testosterone while women have estrogen, they are delusional and need to get a grip on reality.

I agree with whoever it was that wondered when "feminism" became a dirty word. I'm an independant woman, I'm an intelligent person, I would love to find a soulmate, but I'm currently single, and have no insecurity problems over it. I play guitar, I'm interested in politics, I love kids and can't wait to be a mother, I was a competitive and dedicated athlete as a teenager and continue to work out, I earned some of the highest grades in my school, and I like to cook. Not very good at it, but I have some fun with a from-scratch recipe every once and a while...even though I mostly resort to Break and Bake! As a kid, both my parents could and did cook, whenever the other one was busy (same with the groceries and laundry), but my dad was the big chef...he made the best chile!

If this makes me a "feminist," well, so be it.
 
Hi Everyone,

I think Shart, what you need to decide is why are these "hardcore feminists" making you feel so uncomfortable? If you feel that in your relationship it is equal and so does your partner, then who cares what anyone else thinks? It is really important that both men and women are allowed to be who they want to be, not who they think they have to be as a result of a lot of sterotyping that goes on in this world.

Personally, I have been brought up to believe that men and women can do whatever they want - but that doesn't mean that you have to act like an idiot or not take into consideration other peoples feelings and it doesn't mean that people should be treated like door mats.

I also work in a very male dominated area. I am only one of two people in Western Australia who do my job. Most of the people I work with are men and most of them would do as you do re opening doors, carrying things etc. I know they don't do it because I'm the "little woman". I definitely appreciate what they do, and sometimes their manner can determine which project I will complete. Who wants to go out of their way for someone who is a complete d*#khead?

I think what you might be hearing from the girlies is that we don't need to be closetted and treated like an object, nor do we want to. BUT, if you are doing things to help make each others life easier out of love and respect then that is a totally different category altogether. Motive is a big factor.

Just my 2 cents.

(Now back to your regularly scheduled program....)
 
Tania said:

I think what you might be hearing from the girlies is that we don't need to be closetted and treated like an object, nor do we want to. BUT, if you are doing things to help make each others life easier out of love and respect then that is a totally different category altogether. Motive is a big factor.


you nailed it, tania. well said.
 
Felicity said:
Hey, shart, to paraphrase Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets...

Sell ignorant, clueless, reactionary, misogynist bullshit someplace else--we're all stocked up here.




Best post in this thread, fel says it all! :up:
 
Back
Top Bottom