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Old 02-04-2004, 03:33 PM   #1
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Normal Allah and America

John Hagee is a fundalmentalist preacher from San Antonio, TX. You may have seen his sermons broadcasted on cable. He's very far Christian right. I happen to catch a sermon he did on Muslims in America, it was very disturbing and it's been bothering me since. I found a website with some excerpts...

http://diskbooks.org/hageeislam.html
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Old 02-04-2004, 04:15 PM   #2
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In the first mp3, he's using "true" things and adding to it. It is true that the Muslims that are on this violent jihad think that Americans are infidels. But the majority of Muslims in the world do not believe this at all.

I find irony in "killing people who do not submit to your doctrine, is that peaceful?!" coming from a preacher. Crusades.

These clips are disturbing, it's true. He's just twisting the words of the Qu'ran and of the prophet Muhammed around to make Muslims sound evil.
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:17 PM   #3
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Originally posted by Lilly
I find irony in "killing people who do not submit to your doctrine, is that peaceful?!" coming from a preacher. Crusades.

Oh bull ! You are implying that all Christians follow a similar doctrine. I get tired of this simplistic and uninformed view of the crusades.
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:23 PM   #4
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Oh bull ! You are implying that all Christians follow a similar doctrine. I get tired of this simplistic and uninformed view of the crusades.
Reminds me of a Crusades thread in here.....
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:27 PM   #5
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That is an erroneous translation of the word "jihad". Jihad means a personal struggle against sin; it's from an Arabic verb meaning "effort". Only the terrorist nutcases use it to mean war. Someone has apparently done a*terrible* translation of the Koran. With screw-ups like this you can't take this guy's "information" very seriously.
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:28 PM   #6
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Originally posted by nbcrusader



Oh bull ! You are implying that all Christians follow a similar doctrine. I get tired of this simplistic and uninformed view of the crusades.
And some are implying the same about Muslims.

The fact is that if you take certain passages out of context and use examples of certain groups throughout history any religion can be viewed as a violent and dangerous religion. Even Christianinty...
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:30 PM   #7
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And some are implying the same about Muslims.

The fact is that if you take certain passages out of context and use examples of certain groups throughout history any religion can be viewed as a violent and dangerous religion. Even Christianinty...
I agree. People shouldn't make blanket statements about any religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, etc.
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Old 02-04-2004, 06:40 PM   #8
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So let's blind ourselves to a critical look at Islam? It seems every time a Christian points to a verse from the Quran as it is preached in mosques in many parts of the world, we get this immediate "well, the Christians had the crusades, so be quiet" type response.

I agree, many, if not most Muslims in this country to not follow the strict teachings of Quran. Maybe it is something about this country.
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Old 02-04-2004, 06:57 PM   #9
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
So let's blind ourselves to a critical look at Islam? It seems every time a Christian points to a verse from the Quran as it is preached in mosques in many parts of the world, we get this immediate "well, the Christians had the crusades, so be quiet" type response.
No, but if this critical look at Islam concludes, as many seem to, with the idea that the Quran orders Muslims to be at war with people of other religions, then it's legitimate to remind people that Christianity can and has also been interpreted as teaching this. The crusades were an expression of the way in which people interpreted Christianity at that time, therefore it is possible that some people's interpretation of Christianity is that it encouarges its followers to be at war with other religions.

It seems that some people draw the conclusion that the Quran is a "book of violence" and therefore Muslims a "violent people" while claiming that Christianity could never and has never been interpreted in this way. In those cases I think it's legitimate to point out that there are people (and the crusades are merely one example) who would interpret Christianity in this way.

It's not to suggest that no Christian can ever criticise Islam, but rather that it's inaccurate to portray Islam as a fundamentally violent religion and Christianity as a religion which is fundamentally peaceful and could never and has never been used to justify violence.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:02 PM   #10
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I agree Fizz. I don't think Islam is criticism-proof. We Catholics take exception to their marriage laws, for example, because we don't believe in divorce. It's specifically this alleged violence teaching that I think is a bum rap, and a product of what I would call an overly adversarial look at Islam.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:17 PM   #11
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
The crusades were an expression of the way in which people interpreted Christianity at that time, therefore it is possible that some people's interpretation of Christianity is that it encouarges its followers to be at war with other religions.
This is not an accurate statement of the crusades.

Political power, not Scriptural interpretation, drove the crusades.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:19 PM   #12
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So you're saying that the crusades had nothing to do with Christianity?
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:25 PM   #13
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
So you're saying that the crusades had nothing to do with Christianity?
I'm not entirely sure what this question means.

It had nothing to do with someone studying or interpreting the Scriptures.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
So let's blind ourselves to a critical look at Islam? It seems every time a Christian points to a verse from the Quran as it is preached in mosques in many parts of the world, we get this immediate "well, the Christians had the crusades, so be quiet" type response.

I agree, many, if not most Muslims in this country to not follow the strict teachings of Quran. Maybe it is something about this country.
So I'm assuming you agree with the fact that their strict teachings do in fact preach violence?
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:32 PM   #15
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Well, I originally stated that if a person is going to claim Islam is a religion of violence based on some people's interpretation of Islam, then it could also be claimed that Christianity is a religion of violence, based on some people's interpretation of Christianity during the crusads.

You said that interpretation of scripture had nothing to do with the crusades, so my next question was whether you believe the crusades had nothing to do with Christianity.

Or to rephrase it: in your opinion, did Christianity play any role in the crusades?
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