A question for the pacifists here - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-28-2001, 08:50 PM   #1
The Fly
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: LA
Posts: 82
Local Time: 11:00 PM
A question for the pacifists here

How would you have stopped Hitler?

~rougerum
__________________

__________________
Henry Rollins is offline  
Old 09-28-2001, 11:41 PM   #2
Kid A
 
The Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Holy Roman Empire
Posts: 5,271
Local Time: 06:00 PM
they would have sent Jesse Jackson to mediate
__________________

__________________
The Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-29-2001, 01:33 AM   #3
War Child
 
LuvLady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 516
Local Time: 07:00 AM
Jesse Jackson makes me gag.

[This message has been edited by LuvLady (edited 09-28-2001).]
__________________
LuvLady is offline  
Old 09-29-2001, 02:01 AM   #4
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
kobayashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: the ether
Posts: 5,142
Local Time: 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by LuvLady:
Jesse Jackson makes me gag.

[This message has been edited by LuvLady (edited 09-28-2001).]
tuesdaywednesdaythursday!
tuesdaywednesdaythursday!

------------------
i'm a reasonable man
get off my case
__________________
kobayashi is offline  
Old 09-29-2001, 02:05 AM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:00 PM
I'm stepping aside from this, but just as a point of note, after the Allies won World War II, Winston Churchill wanted to just shoot the captured Nazi leaders on the spot. However, for once, it was the U.S. who was the voice of reason here, as Harry Truman insisted on the unprecedented idea of putting them on trial for all the world to see, as a testament to our advancement in civilization. Just blowing in and shooting them all dead, Truman reasoned, would only fuel the enemies they tried to destroy.

And perhaps that has been my stance all along. Some people in this forum have advocated a Churchill-esque approach to this conflict: a "the U.S. can't blow enough up" approach. That's what I balk at. And when I criticize along the lines of Truman here, I'm labelled "unpatriotic" or "bleeding-heart liberal."

All I've ever asked the "warmongers" to do is to step back and reevaluate for the greater good. Sometimes, that involves reevaluating the U.S.'s role in the Islamic sphere of influence, which is often questionable at times. Bin Laden just didn't arbitrarily, one day, pick the U.S. as his target. Even if I criticize that, I'm labelled as "unpatriotic," and several professionals around the country have been fired for doing the same thing in the last two weeks. So much for that "freedom" we were defending...

But I digress. I refuse to take a stance on this war anymore. The course of action has been preordained by people far more important than myself, and what I think amounts to a pile of shit.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 09-29-2001, 02:52 AM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 12:00 AM
Glad that Japan attacked pearl habour.
Whitout this attack, America would never
fight in WW II
__________________
Rono is offline  
Old 09-29-2001, 05:45 PM   #7
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Sometimes, that involves reevaluating the U.S.'s role in the Islamic sphere of influence, which is often questionable at times. Bin Laden just didn't arbitrarily, one day, pick the U.S. as his target.
True, to an extent. I do believe that Israel needs to be much more sensitive to the Palestinian cause than they have been to date. But I do not think Isreal needs to be wiped out of existence, as "The Osama" claims. He is racist in his desire to remove them from the region, much like Hitler was in his desire to remove the Jews from Europe. And his selection of the U.S. as a target is attributable to his view towards ALL "non-Muslim" or "Western-friendly" presences in the Middle East.

One of these days people will take off their thick, politically correct shades and realize tha individuals like "The Osama" and organizations like The Taliban and Al-Qaeda are just as racist and discriminatory and supremacist as the Nazis and the KKK. Political Correctness just doesn't want to admit that because these groups are not "European" or "American."

And, P.S., the increasing devesatation in Europe and threats to the Phillipines, Australia (and even China) would have likely emitted a U.S. response in WW2, even without the Pearl Harbor attack.

~U2Alabama


[This message has been edited by U2Bama (edited 09-29-2001).]
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 10-07-2001, 01:03 PM   #8
Mr. MacPhisto's Tub Scrubber
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Scottsdale, Az. USA
Posts: 509
Local Time: 11:00 PM
Good thread-Rouger
D
B
9

------------------
"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

---------
An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/
__________________
diamondbruno9 is offline  
Old 10-07-2001, 02:02 PM   #9
War Child
 
Marko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 739
Local Time: 12:00 AM
Rolins I'm not what you say a pacifist, and when you ask about Hitler he deserved what he got, but I would like to see all the UK, US, Franch and others that killed thousands and thousands of civilianc with napalm, for instance in Hamburg, on trail for war crime.
I'm glad that it started, but we (or you) have to be carefoul - there are already 4 milion refugees from the US atacks - inocent civilians
And I wouldn't do what the US did to Japan by nuking them and killing, again, a big number of civilians - I would put those people on trial also

Good luck to all your soldiers, and good luck to all the inocent afganistanis out there. I pray for all of them (to chatolic god by the way)
__________________
Marko is offline  
Old 10-10-2001, 07:45 AM   #10
AM
Refugee
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: right underneath the north pole
Posts: 2,409
Local Time: 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Henry Rollins:
How would you have stopped Hitler?

~rougerum

change the envirement so that people like Hitler or Saddam or Bin Laden donīt the right envirement to spread their ideas. This is an enviremental and social problem, not just a political one.
Thatīs what we should be focusing on right now. Make the world a place where everybody is able to live a good life. If you seed evil, you will get evil.


[This message has been edited by AM (edited 10-10-2001).]
__________________
AM is offline  
Old 10-10-2001, 08:29 AM   #11
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MD
Posts: 7,572
Local Time: 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AM:

change the envirement so that people like Hitler or Saddam or Bin Laden donīt the right envirement to spread their ideas. This is an enviremental and social problem, not just a political one.
Thatīs what we should be focusing on right now. Make the world a place where everybody is able to live a good life. If you seed evil, you will get evil.


[This message has been edited by AM (edited 10-10-2001).]
I.e., try to get everyone in the Middle East to get along? Good luck.
__________________
speedracer is offline  
Old 10-10-2001, 09:51 PM   #12
Blue Crack Distributor
 
LarryMullen's POPAngel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'll be up with the sun, I'm not coming down...
Posts: 53,698
Local Time: 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
I'm stepping aside from this, but just as a point of note, after the Allies won World War II, Winston Churchill wanted to just shoot the captured Nazi leaders on the spot. However, for once, it was the U.S. who was the voice of reason here, as Harry Truman insisted on the unprecedented idea of putting them on trial for all the world to see, as a testament to our advancement in civilization. Just blowing in and shooting them all dead, Truman reasoned, would only fuel the enemies they tried to destroy.

And perhaps that has been my stance all along. Some people in this forum have advocated a Churchill-esque approach to this conflict: a "the U.S. can't blow enough up" approach. That's what I balk at. And when I criticize along the lines of Truman here, I'm labelled "unpatriotic" or "bleeding-heart liberal."

All I've ever asked the "warmongers" to do is to step back and reevaluate for the greater good. Sometimes, that involves reevaluating the U.S.'s role in the Islamic sphere of influence, which is often questionable at times. Bin Laden just didn't arbitrarily, one day, pick the U.S. as his target. Even if I criticize that, I'm labelled as "unpatriotic," and several professionals around the country have been fired for doing the same thing in the last two weeks. So much for that "freedom" we were defending...

But I digress. I refuse to take a stance on this war anymore. The course of action has been preordained by people far more important than myself, and what I think amounts to a pile of shit.

Melon


Wow...you totally took the words right out of my mouth, melon. I've been so conflicted these last weeks, not really sure one way or another how I felt about things. But now after Sunday, I'm finally clear on it all.


__________________

__________________
LarryMullen's POPAngel is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright ÂĐ Interference.com