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Old 05-05-2005, 12:47 AM   #1
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Normal a national id -

I believe this bill passed. It seems as if soon all Americans will have identification cards. This sounds so scary to me. Let's debate!

NY Times
Editorial
An Unrealistic 'Real ID'
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Published: May 4, 2005
In a more rational world, Congress would have started thinking hard about identity cards right after Sept. 11. By now, the nation's lawmakers could have had a long and serious discussion about how to create a sensible national ID that would provide identification and security while protecting privacy. This is, after all, a critical issue in terms of both safety and civil liberties.

Too bad. What Congress is doing instead is to ram through a bill that turns state-issued driver's licenses into a kind of phony national identity card through the mislabeled "Real ID" provision. And in order to make absolutely sure there's no genuine debate, the sponsors have tied it to a crucial bill providing funds for American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Attaching a bad bill to a vital one is a sneaky business, making it nearly impossible for thoughtful members of Congress to vote against it. In this case, in order to provide financial support to American troops doing dangerous service abroad, lawmakers are stuck also supporting a plan that eliminates the chance of doing anything serious about identity security. It also puts a new burden on the states and potentially subverts the real purpose of driver's licenses: safe drivers.

This federal driver's license mandate will require states to verify whether an applicant for a license or renewal is in the country legally. Although that has always sounded like a reasonable goal, it bumps up against the arguments of the police and highway safety experts in many parts of the country who are concerned about the illegal immigrants who drive. Eleven states have modified their licenses in ways that make it easier for noncitizens to learn the rules of the road, qualify for licenses and get automobile insurance.

The most optimistic explanation for the Congressional leaders' irresponsibility on this issue is that it's a sop to conservatives led by Representative James Sensenbrenner Jr., a Wisconsin Republican. The conservatives are determined to get this bill passed before they'll listen to any discussion of more comprehensive immigration reform. The Real ID measure is no small price to pay to get the larger reforms, which President Bush has yet to show any signs of seriously pushing.

Once this new driver's license requirement becomes law, licenses from states that do not screen for immigration status will not be accepted as federal identification for things like boarding airplanes or entering federal buildings. Many state officials are understandably concerned about the added cost of this new license because so far there is no federal money attached to Mr. Sensenbrenner's bill. Security-conscious Americans will also be concerned about making state motor vehicle department employees the ultimate authorities on identity security. They will be the ones required to ask for and verify birth certificates - something that is a challenge, given the slapdash way some local communities deal with these documents. States will also be required to keep copies of every applicant's file for a decade and to house those documents in secure buildings.

Senator Lamar Alexander, a Republican from Tennessee, argued in The Washington Post that the bill was not only another unfunded mandate, but would also turn "state driver's license examiners into C.I.A. agents." For states, like Tennessee and Utah, that have found a way to provide special driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, this change is particularly irksome. In these states, residents who cannot prove they are legally in the country can get a license that's good only for driving. In Tennessee, the driving-only license looks considerably different and is labeled: "For driving purposes only. Not valid for identification." That makes sense, and it's the kind of solution that states help create in their roles as legislative laboratories.

Many state officials have been helping to put together new national guidelines for driver's licenses as part of the intelligence reform law enacted last year. The Sensenbrenner bill eclipses that effort. Here, yet again, is another state effort that's being countermanded from Washington by conservatives who once made states' rights their hallowed code.
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Old 05-05-2005, 12:57 AM   #2
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Standardising the licences and retaining a decentralised state based system is different than a centralised national ID.
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Old 05-05-2005, 01:05 AM   #3
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I see this being a step in the direction of national id. Essentially at this rate all of my financial, medical, personal information will be in this card...it's scary.
Additionally, this bill does not help america at all. Most of the 9/11 hijackers got into this country legally. Criminals will find ways to get these licences.
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Old 05-05-2005, 01:10 AM   #4
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Actually some of the hijackers visas has expired and they were still able to get licences, that information is already out there and with the government, coordinating the databases is a positive step.
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Old 05-05-2005, 05:25 AM   #5
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This won't make me feel safer. Terrorists can still get into the country.
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Old 05-05-2005, 06:38 AM   #6
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I don't trust the DMV to do anything right, let alone the security or our nation.

And are we going to have ID scanners at airports, borders etc? I can't imagine why the bar down the street has one and the airport doesn't. If not how many of us have seen our fellow college friends with some pretty good fake IDs. If the frathouse down the street can make convincing fake license, then terrorists would be able to make even more convincing fake licenses.

And don't rush it, don't tack it on to some other bill and not have funds for it. Another failure for the Conservatives and the security of this country.
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Old 05-05-2005, 08:12 AM   #7
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So, the law doesn't go far enough?
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Old 05-05-2005, 08:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
So, the law doesn't go far enough?
It doesn't go anywhere. I don't see how this law will really affectively change anything.

It's the wrong type of thinking.
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Old 05-05-2005, 09:19 AM   #9
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Should verification of citizenship/legal status be a basic requirement for any form of government issued ID?
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Old 05-05-2005, 10:40 AM   #10
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yes i think so......too many people are here illegally committing crimes and stealing construction jobs and everything else and raping our government of funds they arent entitled to...maybe that sounds cold hearted but there are americans born here that dont get half of what theyre entitled to because of illegals.
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Old 05-05-2005, 10:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Should verification of citizenship/legal status be a basic requirement for any form of government issued ID?
Yes.
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Old 05-05-2005, 11:04 AM   #12
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Originally posted by NYRangers78
yes i think so......too many people are here illegally committing crimes and stealing construction jobs and everything else and raping our government of funds they arent entitled to...maybe that sounds cold hearted but there are americans born here that dont get half of what theyre entitled to because of illegals.
Well where I understand where you are getting at, I wouldn't phrase it this way. It's not that black and white. There are many unemployed American citizens that simply won't perform the same jobs at the same price as many illegal workers. That's just a fact. I don't see how they are raping our goverment. Illegal workers aren't getting any benefits, usually they get paid under the table and that's it.

I do think something needs to be done about this problem but kicking them out nor this paticular law helps in any way.
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Old 05-05-2005, 11:20 AM   #13
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i live in california and i know for a fact that my fellow white friends are far too lazy to do what illegal immigrants do. hell, we won't even do janitor work.
creating a national id is problematic. The DMV cannot and should not be the department regulating citizenship. I'm not criticizing the DMV workers, as they are underpaid and overworked. But, it is exactly because of that, that I wish for them not to be in charge of such an affair. Additionally, as someone wrote in this thread earlier, if the frat houses surrounding my apartment can create fake ids, surely sophisticated terrorists can manage. I believe this is just another step towards the creation of a police state. eventually, on the path we are currently headed, all of our medical, social, financial, and personal information will be stored in such an id. If anything conservative christians should be protesting this national id...sounds like the mark of the beast.
(Note: I do not believe in such things, but I used to and many i associate with do)
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Old 05-05-2005, 04:11 PM   #14
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im not even talking just about jobs...but i know what u guys mean. it also has nothing to do with white or black people. i know tons of irish ( white) in new york who are here illegally taking construction jobs away from union workers and everything else. then u see them in the bar drunk and theyre yelling FUCK AMERICA AND FUCK BUSH and everything else...that is only part of it. ( im not saying thats all the recent immigrant irish, but its a lot of them. go to mclean avenue and youll see them out in the bars and at the kozy korner.) i was reading somewhere that the US doesnt even screen anymore for diseases or anything. When my father was first about to go to america in the 60's they held him back in ireland because he needed a root canal done. only when he got his root canal taken care of would the U.S. let him come here to america.

another thing, im all for immigrants coming to america and assimilating themselves. that means one thing, learn english!!! im so fed up in new york when i see all the bus signs in spanish or the back of the metrocard ive bought is in spanish and no english. years ago, immigrants came here and they had to learn the language and be self sufficient. now? they can come here, illegally or legally, have babies and my taxes pay for them and their kids and they cant even speak english. disgraceful to say the least. im all for helping people in need, but id say a good percentage of todays immigrants have an entitlement attitude. at least in new york they do. but in a way you cant blame the spanish. when they are coming here and everthing is in spanish and phone menus and everything else, why should they feel the need to learn english??
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Old 05-05-2005, 04:19 PM   #15
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From what I've read, it sounds like the U.S. is going to issue national standards on state-issued IDs, so that they can be read nationwide. As it is, a magnetic stripe on one state's card will probably not work in a different state.

As it stands, if you're worried about privacy, you're living in the wrong era. Worried about government? You should be more worried about corporations like Lexis-Nexis or the credit reporting agencies like Experian or Trans-Union, who already have so much data on you that it would make your head spin. "Government" is the least of your worries, and when law enforcement wants to get someone, they already can do it from tracing your phone calls to your credit card purchases, etc. They ALREADY are able to know everything about you, so what more will a "national ID" accomplish?

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