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Old 11-14-2004, 03:55 PM   #31
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Originally posted by MadelynIris
I kinda would like to start a theological discussion on the morality of homosexual.

Wanna?

I'm afraid that I'll get banned as a homophobe though, because I don't believe it is a lifestyle that should be celebrated. And apparently anyone that has this belief in FYM is considered a homophobe (not sure why).
A debate about the morality of homosexuality? Sure, why not? And while we're at it, let's debate whether Black people are inferior to white people, whether women should be subservient to men and whether it's okay to persecute Jews for their religion.

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Old 11-14-2004, 03:57 PM   #32
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We know that the answers to all those questions can be answered with Phrenology



"You have the brain pan of a stagecoachman"
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Old 11-14-2004, 04:07 PM   #33
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I agree with anitram. I like theological arguments and such, but I don't think there's any room for theological arguments in politics. This makes no sense. While there are plenty of good and decent people in politics, too damn many of them are only into money and power and use morality strictly as a tool to advance their careers, bank accounts and personal vendettas.
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Old 11-14-2004, 04:14 PM   #34
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Originally posted by verte76
I agree with anitram. I like theological arguments and such, but I don't think there's any room for theological arguments in politics. This makes no sense. While there are plenty of good and decent people in politics, too damn many of them are only into money and power and use morality strictly as a tool to advance their careers, bank accounts and personal vendettas.
Unfortunately, .

My view on gays:

Do i believe homosexuality is wrong? Absolutely not. These people really do love each other, and they have no control over their feelings. I do not believe homosexuality is a choice. If it is, when did you choose? I don't remember choosing to be heterosexual. Therefore gays should not be treated as second class citizens, be cause they have no control over what their hearts are telling them to love. Same with straight people. I can't force myself to fall in love with a person, nor can I force myself not to. So what about the Bible you may ask. I have many problems with the Bible, to me it is very flawed. It was written by men, not God, therefore it is fallable. It was written hundreds of years after events took place, which makes it even more fallable. Many meanings are lost in translation too, another fallacy. Therefore i try my best to stick to the fundamental rules that all humankind seems to follow no matter what religion, the 10 commandments and the golden rule.


There I've spoken my piece. Let the debate take off.
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Old 11-14-2004, 04:15 PM   #35
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I am definitely to the left of most of my compatriots. I'm used to this. I'm used to voting for people who don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected because they are too liberal. After all, I live in a bastion of conservativism. While I do frequently find this frustrating in many ways, it doesn't bother me too much. No one is telling me what to think. No one is telling me I have to vote for Candidate X in the next election. I'm not going to get busted for illegal political activities because being to the left of my compatriots is not a crime. Peaceful protesting, such as participating in peaceful, orderly demonstrations and attending meetings of fellow lefties, signing petitions and voting Democratic is not a crime. It's just being a little different. I don't talk about this very much as I am actually not particularly fond of controversy, and I don't think I have to change anyone's mind anyway. Just give me my First Amendment rights and I'm happy. Take away my First Amendment rights and I'm extremely pissed and not amused.
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Old 11-14-2004, 04:37 PM   #36
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In Catholic tradition the Bible is only part of what we call "sacred tradition", which is the source of our faith. Part of this is belief in the seven sacraments, which includes marriage. I don't want to change the marriage laws of my church. I do support gay civil unions with the full rights and benefits of married couples. I don't want the church meddling with the government, but I also don't want the government in my church. Throughout the centuries we Catholics have really paid every time the government got into the church! So I guess this sort of puts me on a fence.
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:24 PM   #37
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A debate about the morality of homosexuality? Sure, why not? And while we're at it, let's debate whether Black people are inferior to white people, whether women should be subservient to men and whether it's okay to persecute Jews for their religion
*clearing throat*...

By theological discussion, I meant trying to expose where most evangelicals get their basis for their belief on homosexuality.

It's not about bigotry or homophobia. It's about a belief system based on the Bible (and yes, that makes it a theological discussion).

Mark
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:26 PM   #38
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It was written hundreds of years after events took place, which makes it even more fallable. Many meanings are lost in translation too, another fallacy.
U2Democrat,

Are you sure about this? Really? I've studied the origins of the manuscripts for many years, and never have I run across any of this in biblical archeology.

Your dad believe this too? I'm assuming he's studied some of this stuff too.

Mark
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:28 PM   #39
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My dad believes this too and he is a bible scholar.
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:30 PM   #40
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PS-there's an interesting book called "the non church goers guide to the bible" by michael gantt. (i think that's his name). it's very interesting, and mentions what i said.
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:38 PM   #41
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I'm shocked, especially with the manuscripts discovered in the last 20 years and how well they match current greek texts.

Amazing you guys can ingore this hard archeological evidence.

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Old 11-14-2004, 05:41 PM   #42
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well i'll add that the translation part isn't as strong as my other arguments. it's not a problem with the whole bible.
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:42 PM   #43
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sorry i didn't clarify that earlier.
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:46 PM   #44
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Do you think Paul was pretty messed up? (Most of the new testament theology based on his writings).

Just curious.
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:46 PM   #45
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There is no such thing as God, so the Bible is nothing more than a fictional book.

Same thing with Jesus. Jesus never existed, therefore, the whole story of Jesus is fictional.
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