28,000 Texas FIFTH Graders are..... - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-05-2005, 05:19 PM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,256
Local Time: 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
And that is EXACTLY part of the current problem. How often do we learn something, and exxpect ourselves to remember it past the test?

As an educator, it is important to recognize learning styles. It is also important to NOT hold back the entire class when a majority of the students understand a concept.

You can incorporate daily review activities, to keep the students who get it fresh, and give students who did not get it, further opportunities and exposure to eventually get the concept.
Agreed. One problem at some of the schools I went to is that the teachers weren't always available before or after school to help kids with any problems they were having in a class, and a lot of the activities the teachers were a part of before and after school were ones that really could've waited-they had a job to do, they were to teach these kids the material. That was a big problem with me for geometry class in particular-wasn't always able to find a teacher to help me with it.

And any that I did find didn't explain it in a way that make it any easier for me to understand (sadly, by the time I took geometry, my favorite math teacher ever was off teaching at another school in another town-I wish he'd still been around then, I could've gone to him and he probably would've made it make so much more sense to me. He was really good at that). In that case, like you said, different learning styles are worth noting. The way I learned things in my English and history classes (a couple of my best subjects) was different from the way I learned things in math and science classes.

My parents talked about how, when they were kids, there was always a teacher around to help them when they had trouble with a subject, and those teachers still had a lot of other commitments, too-they were able to juggle it all just fine. Sadly, that wasn't always the case at my schools.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I cannot tell you how frustrating it is when teachers do not get through the curriculum.
I imagine it is. I remember teachers telling us that we needed to get such and such units finished by the end of the semester/end of the year, and they'd usually say that when we were taking longer than they'd anticipated with a certain unit.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 08-05-2005, 05:54 PM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by unosdostres14
The problem with this type of testing is that people are going to start teaching to the test, rather than teaching to the courses. You know what I mean? Like....teachers aren't going to start teaching only things that appear on the tests and won't give kids more knowledge.

It could be very dangerous for the education system in America.
This is a problem with any incentive system. Make a simple, measurable incentive, and people will work to that single point and ignore the larger goal.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:09 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
u2bonogirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Back on the blue crack after a long break
Posts: 6,726
Local Time: 05:26 PM
my sister said that theres a lot of problems with kids testing badly in the school district in california because of all the hispanics that cant speak english.
Therefore they are dragging the test scores down.
Dont know if its entirely accurate but its a thought. Texas is on the border.
__________________
u2bonogirl is offline  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:17 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by unosdostres14
The problem with this type of testing is that people are going to start teaching to the test, rather than teaching to the courses. You know what I mean? Like....teachers aren't going to start teaching only things that appear on the tests and won't give kids more knowledge.

It could be very dangerous for the education system in America.
This is not true....and I will explain why at least in MA.

The State of Massachusetts, like any state, is supposed to publish documents called curriculum frameworks. The curriculum frameworks detail to the towns exactly what skills and concepts are supposed to be taught. From these documents you are supposed to create your curriculum. From the curriculum the teachers are supposed to create the dynamic lessons that help children learn.

The state assessment tests are not tests that can be taught to. they are tests designed to measure a school systems effectiveness at covering the materials outlines in the state frameworks, the document that all curriculum is to be based upon.

You are not teachintg to the test. I know it seams like semantics, but, it is not. The test changes EVERY year. It is not the same test. Because the frameworks are pretty vast documents, there may only be a question on a certain mathematical concept. That particular concept may appear every other year.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:26 PM   #20
Refugee
 
starsforu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA (and permanently residing in u2bonogirls head!)
Posts: 2,070
Local Time: 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


This is a problem with any incentive system. Make a simple, measurable incentive, and people will work to that single point and ignore the larger goal.
Yeah, but at least they'll be learning SOMETHING. Even if it isn't everything, it's something.

Since I'm not a teacher, I'll ask this question humbly.... if you're not teaching to the test, what are you teaching to? How do you quantify whether the kids are ready to move onto the next level?

A corollary question is what is a better predictor of future success, tests or teachers? Because if tests are less reliable than the grades that a teacher gives out, then of course this is a bad policy, but if the inverse is true...

And the next thought I had was that if testing is the answer, why would anyone expect that it would work in the first or second year? Do you understand what I mean? If you implement a policy on 5th graders (having not done so in the proceeding 5 years of school, you are guaranteed to catch a bunch of kids who were unprepared for 5th grade in the 1st place) - The true measure of its effectiveness can't be seen in one year, it will take several years to get the older kids caught up or graduated out. Not being an educator and not having any children allows me to be an arm chair quarterback, so that is why I'm asking questions.

More money hasn't seemed to be the solution, school vouchers are roundly booed, so what will the solution be? Is there even a solution? My opinion is that if the parents were more involved educators could be left to actually teach, but with the progressive dissolution of the family, that seems to be a harder and harder thing to ask for, much less guarantee.

Edited to correct grammar
__________________
starsforu2 is offline  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:44 PM   #21
Refugee
 
unosdostres14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ogacihC
Posts: 1,558
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


This is not true....and I will explain why at least in MA.

The State of Massachusetts, like any state, is supposed to publish documents called curriculum frameworks. The curriculum frameworks detail to the towns exactly what skills and concepts are supposed to be taught. From these documents you are supposed to create your curriculum. From the curriculum the teachers are supposed to create the dynamic lessons that help children learn.

The state assessment tests are not tests that can be taught to. they are tests designed to measure a school systems effectiveness at covering the materials outlines in the state frameworks, the document that all curriculum is to be based upon.

You are not teachintg to the test. I know it seams like semantics, but, it is not. The test changes EVERY year. It is not the same test. Because the frameworks are pretty vast documents, there may only be a question on a certain mathematical concept. That particular concept may appear every other year.
You obviously know a lot more about this than I do. But it just seemed to me that having such a stringent pass/fail policy on one standarized test might not be such a good idea.
__________________
unosdostres14 is offline  
Old 08-05-2005, 07:18 PM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox



You are not teachintg to the test. I know it seams like semantics, but, it is not. The test changes EVERY year. It is not the same test. Because the frameworks are pretty vast documents, there may only be a question on a certain mathematical concept. That particular concept may appear every other year.
But what I'm wondering is - you need to prepare your students essentially for standardized testing, correct? IMO, developing an aptitude for excelling on a standardized test is a skill in itself, which many people don't even realize until way later on when they're taking SATs, LSATs, MCATs, GREs, GMATs, etc.

So in a way, to best prepare your students for the test, don't you have to spend at least some time teaching them the skills of taking a standardized test (like timing, etc) and if so, isn't that considered teaching them for a test?
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 08-05-2005, 07:53 PM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


But what I'm wondering is - you need to prepare your students essentially for standardized testing, correct? IMO, developing an aptitude for excelling on a standardized test is a skill in itself, which many people don't even realize until way later on when they're taking SATs, LSATs, MCATs, GREs, GMATs, etc.

So in a way, to best prepare your students for the test, don't you have to spend at least some time teaching them the skills of taking a standardized test (like timing, etc) and if so, isn't that considered teaching them for a test?
The test is untimed at the elementary school level. I do teach them how to handle a problem in which they may not immediately know the answer.

It is not the bulk of my teaching time, if it were they would not pass.

Teaching to the test, is not, in my opinion the equivalent of teaching test skills.

Teaching to the test would be teaching only the things you think might be on the test, verses teaching a broad curriculum of knowledge.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-05-2005, 09:17 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Ah, OK. Thanks for the explanation, Dread.
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 08-06-2005, 06:34 PM   #25
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 35
Local Time: 03:26 PM
I have a friend who is a teacher and it is truly jaw dropping how inefficient, pompous, and underfunded the US educational system really is.

My friend had a girl in his 9th grade class who was 18 and couldnt read and was repeating 9th grade for the 4th time. One question how did she get that far in the first place.

Teachers are INSTRUCTED to pass kids at any cost by administrators who are instructed by state officials who are coerced by the Bush administration....

The educational system is SEVERELY broken in the US. The saddest thing of all is that the people in power seem to think that they have appointed by God or at least a very apathetic public to remedy this problem by shifting blame and instituting a bunch of crappy standardized tests (see Englands Tripos exam for how that works) when they arent too busy smugly mugging it up for the various news cameras and night shows.

Its just a sad and tragic story and the victims in this little moronic adult chess game are children. Mother Nature is weeping for the future that she left to the hands of man.
__________________
peacepandemic is offline  
Old 08-06-2005, 06:37 PM   #26
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by peacepandemic

Teachers are INSTRUCTED to pass kids at any cost by administrators who are instructed by state officials who are coerced by the Bush administration....
Quite frankly, this is wrong.....State Officials and the Bush administration have nothing to do with passing children along....


Retention is something the administration has been fighting for. The President fought for it in Texas, and hecertainly has not been in favor of passing people along.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-06-2005, 06:44 PM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
MissVelvetDress_75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: basking in my post-concert glow still mesmerized by the orbit of his hips..Also Holding Bono Close as he requested.
Posts: 25,776
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal


Very good point.

I'm lucky to be in a very good school district, and our school has plenty of money poured into it, at least. But I still get this feeling that there's something wrong with our school system, and I can't put my finger on it. I feel like we lack challenges, discipline, the necessity to work hard...and that's largely on the part of the students (although I'm talking middle/high school level, not the fifth grade). Most of the kids around me don't even bother to work hard, and they get away with it. I don't think there's any magical solution to our school system, half the other kids are too spoiled to appreciate their education.
ahh good old A'retta and the $$$$$$$$.
__________________
MissVelvetDress_75 is offline  
Old 08-06-2005, 06:45 PM   #28
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 35
Local Time: 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Quite frankly, this is wrong.....State Officials and the Bush administration have nothing to do with passing children along....


Retention is something the administration has been fighting for. The President fought for it in Texas, and hecertainly has not been in favor of passing people along.
If you disagree with me, take it up with my friend. He teaches every day and I have a flawless memory for the stories he relates to me. Now if you are disagreeing with me because you dont want to believe it, thats for you to sort out.
__________________
peacepandemic is offline  
Old 08-06-2005, 07:12 PM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:26 PM
I don't like standardized tests, and I know enough perfectly intelligent people who plain don't test well.

On the other hand, I agree that social promotion is not a good idea, but whether someone passes or fails should be determined by the year's coursework and studies, not some generic state dot test.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 08-06-2005, 09:11 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 09:26 PM
I spent 8 years in kentucky public schools.........verrrry sad. Many, many of the people i knew had been held back at least one year.
__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com