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Old 02-04-2016, 10:40 AM   #796
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There are absolutely some fiscally conservative ideas that make sense. And a lot of truths that the left in general does not want to accept. For example, the bureaucracy of public service IS a largely bloated beast, and you could fairly easily find efficiencies WITHOUT cutting services (what you need to do is cull back office staff, through attrition which avoids layoffs). Whether we like it or not, defined benefit pension plans for public sector workers have to be phased out because the taxpayers can no longer afford them - it is a combination of things that has led us to this point, but you don't have to be evil Scott Walker to recognize that there is a real and tangible problem here. So yes, there are aspects which I think the left is ignoring or choosing to live in la-la land, the problem is that in the US, the Republican party is so far to the right and so obsessed with completely inconsequential things (Planned Parenthood funding, really?) that no sane person who is fiscally conservative should actually believe that they are in it in the name of good economic sense.
Agree 100%

The government and government run organizations are incredibly wasteful.

You can be friendly to businesses and encourage growth and development without just ignoring all regulations, and you can then take that money and reinvest it into the community to fund social services and initiatives. And for fucks sake you can allow gun ownership with logical fucking restrictions and background checks that make sense.

The GOP is too tied to religious extremists (oh the irony!) to be an effective party in this day and age. They're a clown car.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:28 PM   #797
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Latest polls starting to show Kasich falling back in New Hampshire and Rubio and Cruz firmly grabbing onto the second and third place positions behind Trump. If Iowa's trifecta also shows up in New Hampshire, then basically everyone else will be forced to leave the race as voters have clearly made their minds up about who deserve to be the frontrunners.

I'm expecting a great showing for Rubio in the primary, probably getting momentum like he did in Iowa and earning at least 20% of the vote. It could still be awhile before he actually starts winning states, but I think he'll definitely have the edge once the bluer states start showing up in the calendar.

On the other side, Bernie's receiving almost double Clinton in a lot of recent NH polling. It's an absolute lock and Clinton didn't do herself any favors at New Hampshire's town-hall last night where she basically refused to clearly answer questions regarding marijuana usage and death with dignity and even went so far as to say her Iraq War vote was her trying to give leverage so UN inspections could happen...a brazen lie if there ever was one.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:32 PM   #798
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
There are absolutely some fiscally conservative ideas that make sense. And a lot of truths that the left in general does not want to accept. For example, the bureaucracy of public service IS a largely bloated beast, and you could fairly easily find efficiencies WITHOUT cutting services (what you need to do is cull back office staff, through attrition which avoids layoffs). Whether we like it or not, defined benefit pension plans for public sector workers have to be phased out because the taxpayers can no longer afford them - it is a combination of things that has led us to this point, but you don't have to be evil Scott Walker to recognize that there is a real and tangible problem here. So yes, there are aspects which I think the left is ignoring or choosing to live in la-la land, the problem is that in the US, the Republican party is so far to the right and so obsessed with completely inconsequential things (Planned Parenthood funding, really?) that no sane person who is fiscally conservative should actually believe that they are in it in the name of good economic sense.
I'll echo the others in giving this a .

I'd be more than willing to work out compromises on the financial side of things politically and talk with conservatives about how to streamline all this stuff to make it more efficient and simple. But the moment someone on the right starts spouting that "handouts"/"poor people are lazy/don't work hard enough" sort of BS, that's when they've officially lost me. There's ways to discuss this issue without insulting poor/struggling people or making offensive presumptions about why they're struggling financially.

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It's getting late for me to pull up the research but recent polling has found that public is more in line with restrictions on abortion. In the past there has been more stark contrast between Pro-Life and Pro-Choice factions. The original post Roe v Wade generation is being replaced by gen-x and millennials who are not polarized one way or another. They see a middle ground with restrictions at a certain point. The religious right and NARAL will still hold their positions. Both parties may evolve to this new consensus that has appeared again in polling. Like I said I'll find the link later. Not trying to create an abortion fight in the thread, just wanted to point out the changing public opinions.
I will simply say these three things in response to this:

1, there is a difference between being personally pro-life and actively supporting government restrictions on that issue. If you do happen to find that research/polling, I'll be curious to see if it takes that distinction into account.

2, I certainly hope none of the people who support government restrictions on abortion then turn around and extol the virtues of "limited government".

3, at the end of the day, I don't care what anyone else thinks about the issue of abortion. It's still not anyone else's place to make the decision as to when or whether or not a woman can have one. Period. End of story. And the fact that the GOP will not. stop. obsessing. over this issue is one of the many, many reasons I cannot support them.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:36 PM   #799
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Maybe try cutting the military budget in half, and see how much more funding we can throw at more important areas/ideas


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Old 02-04-2016, 01:39 PM   #800
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This "a rising tide lifts all boats" pablum sounds lovely, but in actual Republican strategy has consistently been a focus on making life easier for those at the top and harder for those at the bottom. So yes, not only is "a rising tide lifts all boats" simplistic, it's also demonstrably false.

So let's go back to the 90s when Clinton and GOP controlled congress successfully managed a growing economy. There were more job opportunities for everybody. Wage growth. It is simplistic, yes.

Today you may be correct in that the stock market is at record highs (propped up by cheap money courtesy of the Fed). So the rich get richer while there is not correlating effect underneath with a 7 year anemic recovery.


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Old 02-04-2016, 01:52 PM   #801
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So let's go back to the 90s when Clinton and GOP controlled congress successfully managed a growing economy. There were more job opportunities for everybody. Wage growth. It is simplistic, yes.

Today you may be correct in that the stock market is at record highs (propped up by cheap money courtesy of the Fed). So the rich get richer while there is not correlating effect underneath with a 7 year anemic recovery.

glad to see you think the Bush tax cuts were a bad idea as well.
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:39 PM   #802
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:29 PM   #803
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glad to see you think the Bush tax cuts were a bad idea as well.

Never said that.


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Old 02-04-2016, 03:48 PM   #804
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Perhaps you should have.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:55 PM   #805
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Never said that.


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you wanted to get back to the 1990s.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:27 PM   #806
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National lead of Clinton over Sanders is just 15.5% according to the RCP polling average. Keep in mind that the total between them includes about 12% that didn't pick a candidate/picked O'Malley in older polls. Still plenty of wiggle room for Sanders as Clinton hovering at 51.8% nationally is hardly commanding.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - 2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:59 PM   #807
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National lead of Clinton over Sanders is just 15.5% according to the RCP polling average. Keep in mind that the total between them includes about 12% that didn't pick a candidate/picked O'Malley in older polls. Still plenty of wiggle room for Sanders as Clinton hovering at 51.8% nationally is hardly commanding.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - 2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination


other than New Hampshire, what state(s) do you see Sanders winning?
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:12 PM   #808
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‘No One Will Push You Into Running For President,’ Jeb Bush Softly Whispers Before Tucking In Sleeping Grandson - The Onion - America's Finest News Source
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:08 PM   #809
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This is so stupid and yet so addictive.

TrumpDonald.org
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:14 PM   #810
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When will we realize that national polls are utterly meaningless...
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