Which is better: HTDAAB or ATYCLB?

[Layton]

Bomb wins for me. From LAPOE on, the flow of Bomb is excellent and I mean JT level excellent. I agree with the earlier posts stating that the first 3 song run is subpar flow. MD is not a good move post Vertigo and Edge's guitar stylings are too similiar on MD/SYCMIOYO to put those songs back to back. The power of both songs are kind of negated by that decision. ATYCLB is not all bad, though. It's theme is more interesting to me.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

I think ATYCLB is the most immediate album U2 have ever done.
I think ATYCLB is also the most polished album U2 have ever done.

If I were to make an argument for any other album, it would of course be the other poppy, polished, easily digestable immediacy of HTDAAB. Both albums aim and accomplish the same things. Despite minor differences in song X vs song Y.

I know these opinions are all entirely subjective, but let me just say I couldnt possibly disagree more with what you said.

If anything, if you are to assert that one of them is a pop album, then they both are. If I had to argue one side, I'd say HTDAAB is probably slightly more rock and roll, but neither are very much.

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R&B influences on two different songs:
In A Little While vs Love and Peace or Else
I think most would agree IALW is the more "pop" song.
LAPOE is a bluesy rock number.

Beautiful Day or Vertigo both pop rock songs. So I don't know how one would differentiate. Both have sort of the ode to Bono's father Kite vs Sometimes, both are pop.
Elevation is the sing along stadium rocker vs COBL, both are poppy rock songs.

Walk on vs All Because of You probably the truest to form rock and roll either album has to offer. Essentially it could easily be pop-rock, hooky choruses with a big melody.

Grace vs One Step Closer:both ambient moody music
Original of the Species vs Stuck In a Moment
Beatles Let it Be era vs Motown sing-along, pure pop in both cases

When I Look at the World vs Yahweh
God songs, probably neither too much rock or pop. WILATW is probably more rock and roll.

Wild Honey vs A Man and A Woman
both pop deluxe

New York vs Miracle Drug
NY has a rocky bridge, MD has a rocky solo and outro
both are in the same vein as all the other stuff. pop rock.

Peace on Earth vs Crumbs From Your Table
God and poltics, Crumbs is decidedly the more rocky song.
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Point is, there aren't any real rock and roll arguments going on here, it's all pop, the few differences in the "genre" type comparisons lean slightly to HTDAAB as a more rocky album, but noone is really convinced of that.

I wouldnt make a big effort to personally champion HTDAAB as a rock album but certainly NOT ATYCLB. That's, I guess my disagreement, how could you say on one hand that HTDAAB is more of a pop album, when ATYCLB clearly is cut from the same cloth. They are BOTH pop albums.

U2 have always had a sense of pop music and it is exhibited heavily in ATYCLB and HTDAAB, which depsite certain song differences, production and such, are essentialy two sides of the same coin. U2 as a pop rock outfit, writing songs with catchy hooks and melodies and the occasional meandering off the path that produces a Grace or a One Step Closer is not enough, IMO, to distinguish the albums apart on a rock vs pop basis.

They are both pop albums in the same ways. The only thing really to be distinguished is which has better songs. I don't find it to be really all that subjective to call them both pop albums. I mean to me, that's what they are. I guess if one considered that an insult they may argue against it. I'd say to those people don't consider it an insult, U2 don't, they are doing it on purpose, you know? They are trying to make pop records.

I agree with a lot of what you say actually; but I never said that ATYCLB is not a pop album. I only made that comment about HTDAAB because a lot of people are in denial that it is cut from exactly the same cloth as ATYCLB.

They are both very front heavy albums. They are both pop albums like you said, both have great pop songs. I'd say that HTDAAB rocks a bit harder and that's mainly due to the fact that it's produced very 'hot." With different production on ATYCLB, "Beautiful Day," "Elevation," "Walk On," "When I Look At The World" and "New York" could have ROCKED a lot harder. Hell, just listen to the Tombraider mix of Elevation as compared to the album version and that should give an indication of the differnce production makes.


I would even argue that HTDAAB has more great songs than ATYCLB....

But what I've been aguing the whole time is that does simply slapping 11 great songs together make a great album? No. Not every song on "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band" is great, but those songs together make a great album.

In my opinion, a great album should have a cohesive sound and theme--something that HTDAAB lacks. It comes close, but the mix of all these different producers really churned out ATYCLB Pt II, but with no soul.

So to clarify:

Album with more great songs: HTDAAB
Album that forms a better "album": ATYCLB

 

[Joshua87]

I seem to be in a huge minority here, but All That You Can't Leave Behind is without question the better album. As said many times before HTDAAB completely lacks any flow, something that makes ATYCLB. When I listen to ATYCLB I hear a story, and there is no such moment in Bomb. On the individual level most of the songs are much better:

Beautiful Day kicks the crap out of COBL
I HATE VERTIGO (nod to elevation)
Kite > SYCMIOYO (this song gets worse everytime i hear it)
Walk On is miles ahead of Yahweh
IALW and AMAAW is a draw
Stuck in a moment grows on me everytime i hear it...but not comparable to anything on BOMB
And When I Look at the World is flat out the best thing they have done since Zooropa

The rest of the songs are kind of incomparable, New York, Wild Honey are excellent, and Peace on Earth and Grace are decent songs. For the bomb, Love and Peace is great as is OOTS, but miracle drug, CFYT, OSC are pretty good, and ABOY just freaking sucks. Sadly, I have become quite dissapointed with Bomb, it seems like the more forced album. I just don't get it, and its not like its beyond me, it just doesnt say anything, has no theme. Its just a bad sequel.

Elevation was a much better tour too...

 

[ImOuttaControl]

I seem to be in a huge minority here, but All That You Can't Leave Behind is without question the better album. As said many times before HTDAAB completely lacks any flow, something that makes ATYCLB. When I listen to ATYCLB I hear a story, and there is no such moment in Bomb.

Yaaaay, I'm not alone.

You said it perfectly to what I believe a good "album" is.... HTDAAB is not a great album, but rather a great collection of songs.

 

[Joshua87]

I gotch your back

 

[Ladera Heights]

Both albums are pretty close in terms of greatness, but Bono's singing on HTDAAB puts over the edge for me.

 

[Joshua87]

Bonos new voice doesnt do that much for me. Yeah, its stronger, but he isnt using it effectively. On ATYCLB, the tone and expression that he uses (ie: in a little while ) are 20 times more valuable than range and power.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

Bonos new voice doesnt do that much for me. Yeah, its stronger, but he isnt using it effectively. On ATYCLB, the tone and expression that he uses (ie: in a little while ) are 20 times more valuable than range and power.

This is a much more difficult discussion for me... I love bono's voice on ATYCLB. It has a tons of soul like you mentioned...especially on "In A Little While."

But on the other hand I love the way Bono soars in Vertigo and the "sing" part of SYCMIOYO.


I guess IMO his voice isn't THAT different. He has serious trouble hitting the high notes in Original of the Species and is straining in Miracle Drug/ABOY. I think he's got a little more power in his falsetto now, but that's it. Being that I don't think his voice is that different on either album, I couldn't ever judge what is a better album soley on his voice.

 

[Palace_Hero]

I have recently suprised myse;f by removing myself from Interference bias bullshit on ATYCLB and realised whilst Hut Dab is a good album, 'Leave Behind' is incredibly underrated by fans, if not commercially.

Beautiful Day - Classic
Stuck - Poor production, but you can hear a GREAT song underneath the shit, somewhere.
Elevation - Meh...
Walk On - Not a personal fave, but a top song regardless.
Kite - One of the greatest songs ever recorded, the best since The Fly. Nothing has topped it since either.
IALW - Great chilling song.
Wild Honey - I never liked it, but I never gave it a chance. Truth is it is a nice ditty that you need to spend a little time with. Shits on AMAAW.
POE - Just great. Poignant, beautiful music.. underrated.
WILATW - One of the 3 classics, after Beautiful Day and Kite. I'm suprised so many people don't realise this.
New York - A solid album track.
Grace - I think it has its purpose, even if i don't love it.

If there was a stripped down Stuck, swapped Electrical Storm for Elevation and squeexed in TGBHF, this would be an Achtung/JT level album, in my eyes.

 

[starsgoblue]

There is a stripped down Stuck...

Here: http://s45.yousend it.com/d.aspx?id=3EY95LHALCY243BBVLBNH1V0AQ

(remove the space between 'send' and 'it')

 

[ImOuttaControl]

There is a stripped down Stuck...

Here: http://s45.yousend it.com/d.aspx?id=3EY95LHALCY243BBVLBNH1V0AQ

(remove the space between 'send' and 'it')

ahhh...

I haven't listened to that version in a long time. It's so sad thinking how such an amazing song this could and should have been on the album. (a version with simple bass and drums--and NO overproduction would have been perfect)

 

[Zoots]

Palace Hero: Guess ATYCLB has grown on you just like it has on me. Stuck In A Moment (acoustic version) definitely sounds better than the over produced mess that's on the album. When I listen to ATYCLB on my comp, I hardly play the album version of Stuck anymore. So yeah... I think I've grown to like almost all the songs off of that album except for maybe Grace (to an extent). But even then... the moment I give AB or Pop another spin, the difference is clear as night and day. There is still no doubt in my mind that U2 used to be more exciting before 2000.

 

[U2DMfan]

I agree with a lot of what you say actually; but I never said that ATYCLB is not a pop album. I only made that comment about HTDAAB because a lot of people are in denial that it is cut from exactly the same cloth as ATYCLB.

They are both very front heavy albums. They are both pop albums like you said, both have great pop songs. I'd say that HTDAAB rocks a bit harder and that's mainly due to the fact that it's produced very 'hot." With different production on ATYCLB, "Beautiful Day," "Elevation," "Walk On," "When I Look At The World" and "New York" could have ROCKED a lot harder. Hell, just listen to the Tombraider mix of Elevation as compared to the album version and that should give an indication of the differnce production makes.


I would even argue that HTDAAB has more great songs than ATYCLB....

But what I've been aguing the whole time is that does simply slapping 11 great songs together make a great album? No. Not every song on "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band" is great, but those songs together make a great album.

In my opinion, a great album should have a cohesive sound and theme--something that HTDAAB lacks. It comes close, but the mix of all these different producers really churned out ATYCLB Pt II, but with no soul.

So to clarify:

Album with more great songs: HTDAAB
Album that forms a better "album": ATYCLB

we agree much more than disagree for sure.
I'd only take issue with the last part, as I beleive the vice versa, ATYCLB=great songs, less strong as an album
HTDAAB=not many great songs, but strong as a whole piece

the only reason is, I think HTDAAB has about 9 really solid songs, maybe less cohesive for sure, but strong in quality.
ATYCLB, to me has about 5 great songs and 6 B-side material.
So it's harder for me to make the argument, although maybe it does have more cohesion than HTDAAB.


I agree with the production gripes, for sure. The one thing I'll mention is about ATYCLB rocking much harder, that it could have for sure. Elevation to me has the bare bones of what could have been a mganificent song, and it's just crap IMO on the album. Even with the lyrical problems and the cheestastic chorus, it could have been salvaged. The tomb raider mix is 90 times better, I think the majority of this board agrees with that.

When I Look at The World is arguably U2's best song with a terrible vocal take. Bono just sounds lazy on it. He sang it like in Kansas City as the snip to Bad, and he really belts "So I TRY TO BE LIKE YOU" and it sounds magnificent. At what point and time didn't Danny Lanois or Eno or Edge or someone say to him "you gotta give the vocals more energy". It's still a really good song, could have been much better.

New York just transforms live and becomes a killer rock song, on the album, it seems so tame. Production. Maybe mixing more specifically.

Beautiful Day is the best song on the album, I think, easily. if the rhythm section was louder in the mix, I think it would have been even better.

Stuck, well I think the majority loves the acoustic version, very simple sweet, melodic, I think it's great. The album version, I loathe. It's terrible, IMO.

Seems pretty petty to nitpick production and all, I just think U2's last 3 albums are a production mess, so is becoming a trend, it would seem. I am of course, in favor of letting Brian Eno do it by himself.

 

[gman]

I think in several years time, when the excitement has toned down and we are all a bit older and wiser and our musical tastes have matured (like my very own has to my amazement), all the ATYCLB bashers will learn to appreciate it. Even the much maligned "second half" will become loved. Trust me..........am a politician!!

 

[Irishteen]

Could someone send me the Tomb raider Mix, I love Elevationa nd if the Tomb Raider Mix is as good as yuou say, i will love it even more. shorty11857@yahoo.co.uk

 

[bathiu]

I think in several years time, when the excitement has toned down and we are all a bit older and wiser and our musical tastes have matured (like my very own has to my amazement), all the ATYCLB bashers will learn to appreciate it. Even the much maligned "second half" will become loved. Trust me..........am a politician!!

5 years is enough time for "excitement to tone down and be a bit older"...

...and I noticed that more and more people realise (probably after discovering older albums and seeing that the band is still able to make great things - on HTDAAB) that ATYCLB is one of U2's worse...
...you'd be surprised how much of all those good reviews (from fans) of ATYCLB has changed with time.
ATYCLB is not a "grower" album... it's pop... it is supose to sell, be high on the charts and be forgotten... there is a reason they are playing only 2 songs from that album now... and it's their now previous album.
On Elevation they were playing 5 songs from - at the time - previous album, POP (in rotation, not on one show)...

...........................
Also, the band said many times (search U2world.com archive if you want) that there is no theme on ATYCLB... there is no storytelling, "each song can be a single... blahblah"... it's our album of singles...
If someone can see a theme on ATYCLB... it's only a work of their imagination OR a work of this plane in all videos...
Good flow of the songs? of course it's good, it's sweet, empty, stupid pop... shuffle the songs as many times you want it will flow well every time.

HTDAAB on the other hand has a theme... from darknes to light, from doubt to faith... that's why the track list is the way it is, even if the flow of the songs is not that great...
And it's not even my opinion.... those are all words of the band!

 

[Infinity]

Of course ATYCLB has a theme! It is about letting go of everything and moving on (Beautiful Day, Stuck, Walk On, Kite). Most of the songs also provide a sense of hope. The album cover and title itself also provides this theme of leavin everything behind and of a better time coming.

I think in a couple of years, people will realize that HTDAAB is not a million times better then ATYCLB. I mean, how many times can you listen to "Hello Hello."

Many U2 fans are spoiled. Before the release of the bomb, how many people bashed ATYCLB. After the bomb came out, the ATYCLB bashing went on an all time high. Why? Because the bomb may just be a better album, but that doesn't mean that the previous album sucks! I remember, when ATYCLB was released, most people placed it as their #3 favorite; they said that it saved the band from ending, etc. Now, U2 has made this album in which arguably 11 out of the 11 songs are great, people are saying that ATYCLB sucks because 7 out of the 11 songs are great. When is the last time you saw a band that released an album with that many good songs on it? Now what if U2's next album is better then HTDAAB? If this happens, then are we gonna bash HTDAAB for not being as good enough as the new one??? I think so.

 

[Chizip]

Many U2 fans are spoiled. Before the release of the bomb, how many people bashed ATYCLB. .

Actually, there was quite a bit. Just ask U2girl about that

 

[Lancemc]

This is just one arguement I'm afraid to get in the middle of...

 

[innocent_eyes]

It's good to see that it is at least arguable!!! I mean, not everyone thinks one is better than the other, and i think this comes down to taste.

I think HTAAB is the better album but ATYCLB has better individual songs (BD, ELE, Kite, IALW, WO, WILATW)

 

[Bono's shades]

When HTDAAB first came out I was absolutely convinced it was a better album than ATYCLB. Now that some time has passed, I'm no longer so sure. I'm not a huge fan of either album, but at least ATYCLB had some songs that grew on me over time, like Kite, In A Little While and Wild Honey, but I don't think anything on HTDAAB that I didn't care for at first, such as COBL, Miracle Drug or Yahweh, has grown on me at all, and the songs I loved at first, like Vertigo, Love and Peace or Else, Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own, Original of the Species and All Because of You, just don't sound as fresh and exciting anymore.

 

[popmart86]

htdaab SOUNDS LIKE atyclb. 'bomb' is kinda regurgitated, so in all fairness since 'behind' came first, it's better.