Question for 00's Bashers/90's Lovers...

[Lila64]

How do you or I know about the band's intention without being in the know? You and I possess the same amount of information about the band, unless you speak to them on a regular basis and no one else knows about it.

 

[dan_smee]

I'll educate you then. You can look at time signatures of songs, musical complexity, the effects, the innovation, the lyrical complexity, the changes in the songs, types of instruments used, the difficulty of bass lines, uses of moods, song length and many, many more.

Seeing as Always was turned into the mega hit Beautiful Day, I think it is a fact that ATYCLB was a more single ready album. That song sold so many records by itself.

Ever watched Dead poet's Society?

Can measure the greatness of a poem by plotting its metre etc... You need to tear out the front page of your textbook.

 

[Screwtape2]

I don't even see how much different the B-side version of "The Sweetest Thing" is to the single version. The piano bit is more pronounced? The rest of the band sings in the chorus? The lyrics are the same... Bono's still singing them in an almost similar delivery, too. How is changing this song any different than the re-recorded versions of the Pop songs?

Help me out here.

It was turning into a more catchy Trip Through Your Wires with an interesting bass and drums climax and outro. The Sweetest Thing single version ignores the bass and drums climax and inside and ends with the "de de do do" ending. The b-side was a lot funkier. The single version was straight forward pop. You listen to the demo version and it also sounds like it could have turned into a looser Trip Through Your Wires. But no, they went for generic pop so I'd be a hit inside of a turning it what it was becoming.

 

[Screwtape2]

Hey, if that's how you measure how great a song is, more power to you, but to expect me to do the same is shaky at best. It'll affect me in a different way then it affects you, another totally alright thing, but how it relates to the band's intent on selling their music is still beyond me.

I wish you'd educate me more often though, I got a good laugh out of it.

We're talking about creativity not how good it is.

 

[Screwtape2]

Ever watched Dead poet's Society?

Can measure the greatness of a poem by plotting its metre etc... You need to tear out the front page of your textbook.

Greatness, no. Creativity, oh yes. The latter being what we are talking about here.

 

[U2girl]

There is only one explanation to the shift to pop. They first dumbed down Sweetest Thing to simple pop for no other reason than money. They had Wave of Sorrow waiting to be finished but no they went for the clear hit. They dumbed down Always to have a clear hit in Beautiful Day. They dumbed down Native Son to have a clear hit. They even dumbed down a close to completed beach clip to make Window In The Skies to make sure to have another hit. That's trying to be mainstream and sell more records than anyone else. That's the opposite of creativity.

S. Thing versions are very similar, except they added some guitar and strings and thankfully a new vocal take. Even the B-side versions already sounds like a pop song. (the song did make money, for Ali's Chernobyl charity, the money pigs)

Wave of sorrow actually didn't have lyrics until Bono added them. Not hearing a hit, and it wasn't a single...? Desert of our love would be the obvious catchy single choice.

As someone that likes Always, BD is vastly superior musically and lyrically. Much like Lady with the spinning head and The Fly.

Native Son - Bono said in the studio "I can't sing this for the next two years" and Lillywhite said the rest of the band wasn't comfortable with politics creeping in Bono's lyrics.

None of the beach clips were "almost complete". WITS is a good upgrade over beach clip.

Interesting none of the 3 single versions on Pop share that same sell out fate...

 

[dan_smee]

i feel like talking to a brick wall.

It doesn't seem to matter what position anyone takes up, it will be opposed.

Here's one, screwtape is right...

Argue with that and put us out of our misery.

Even people who feel that 00's music wasnt as good as 90s agree with everyone else, your motives, and processes are WRONG. You make sweeping assumptions that they have sold out because they are making different music. Get a clue.

 

[U2girl]

Did U218 make any sense either? But they released it.

Complying with record contract obligations makes perfect sense. The alternative is getting sued by your label.

 

[Mr. V]

It was turning into a more catchy Trip Through Your Wires with an interesting bass and drums climax and outro. The Sweetest Thing single version ignores the bass and drums climax and inside and ends with the "de de do do" ending. The b-side was a lot funkier. The single version was straight forward pop. You listen to the demo version and it also sounds like it could have turned into a looser Trip Through Your Wires. But no, they went for generic pop so I'd be a hit inside of a turning it what it was becoming.

There's barely any difference between the two versions. The latter sounds like a cleaned up version of the original. I love it. But I suppose I'll eat up anything they dish out.

 

[Screwtape2]

S. Thing versions are very similar, except they added some guitar and strings and thankfully a new vocal take. Even the B-side versions already sounds like a pop song. (the song did make money, for Ali's Chernobyl charity, the money pigs)

Wave of sorrow actually didn't have lyrics until Bono added them. Not hearing a hit, and it wasn't a single...? Desert of our love would be the obvious catchy single choice.

As someone that likes Always, BD is vastly superior musically and lyrically. Much like Lady with the spinning head and The Fly.

Native Son - Bono said in the studio "I can't sing this for the next two years" and Lillywhite said the rest of the band wasn't comfortable with politics creeping in Bono's lyrics.

None of the beach clips were "almost complete". WITS is a good upgrade over beach clip.

Interesting none of the 3 single versions on Pop share that same sell out fate...

Sweetest Thing was turning into something new but instead they turned it into something that would sell inside of doing the song justice.

Those are two examples of what they could have done. It would have been the more creative thing to have finished Wave of Sorrow. But they wanted something that sold instead of doing something creative.

With Always they something nice to put on an album. Instead they decided to turn it into a hit.

With Native Son, they did the same thing. They went for the simplest rocker so they'd have a hit.

The beach clips were pretty far along. The turned the song into something that would sell.

Clearly creativity comes second to the band when there is a chance at a hit.

 

[dan_smee]

thumbs up for those who agree with screwtape

thumbs down if you think that screwtape is digging deeper holes but not admitting that in the first instance it was possible that the opinion was wrong and is toos tubborn to admit it.

 

[Screwtape2]

Complying with record contract obligations makes perfect sense. The alternative is getting sued by your label.

But there again, they don't do anything creative with it. But of course they put a hit on there so it sells anyways.

 

[Screwtape2]

You make sweeping assumptions that they have sold out because they are making different music. Get a clue.

Clearly you have not been reading anything I've said.

 

[dan_smee]

But there again, they don't do anything creative with it. But of course they put a hit on there so it sells anyways.

What. The. Fuck?

How can you be arguing that point? It's a collection of songs! They gave us 2 new songs. And if you want your "creativity" WITS is a different time signature than any other song they've ever made. Intro to Streets, and WITS are the only 6/8 songs tey have. no creativity. GET A CLUE.

 

[dan_smee]

Clearly you have not been reading anything I've said.

No i have. and i haver successfully argued against all of it. other people agree. you are the only person who doesn't. Go back to the end of page 2 and the start of page 3. LOGIC.

 

[Mr. V]

Sweetest Thing was turning into something new but instead they turned it into something that would sell inside of doing the song justice.

Those are two examples of what they could have done. It would have been the more creative thing to have finished Wave of Sorrow. But they wanted something that sold instead of doing something creative.

With Always they something nice to put on an album. Instead they decided to turn it into a hit.

With Native Son, they did the same thing. They went for the simplest rocker so they'd have a hit.

The beach clips were pretty far along. The turned the song into something that would sell.

Clearly creativity comes second to the band when there is a chance at a hit.

You act as if Beautiful Day is just stupid bollocks. Lyrically, it's one of my favourite U2 songs. It's appropriately titled - it is beautiful.

Vertigo is a bit dumbed down, but the band wanted a rocker and they delivered. Do you think they said "Hey, guys, this is good, but let's change it so we can make more money"? Do you not know how much cash they have already?

Of course your entire theory assumes that no hit song has ever been intelligent or creative, which is bologna.

I'd have less of a problem with what you say if you didn't come across as such an asshole.

 

[dan_smee]

You act as if Beautiful Day is just stupid bollocks. Lyrically, it's one of my favourite U2 songs. It's appropriately titled - it is beautiful.

Vertigo is a bit dumbed down, but the band wanted a rocker and they delivered. Do you think they said "Hey, guys, this is good, but let's change it so we can make more money"? Do you not know how much cash they have already?

Of course your entire theory assumes that no hit song has ever been intelligent or creative, which is bologna.

I'd have less of a problem with what you say if you didn't come across as such an asshole.

logic

 

[Mr. V]

Also, let's not forget that they can't decide to make a song a hit. The public decides that. U2 thought - nay, they were assured - they had a backup #1 in Staring at the Sun. They were wrong. Does that make them sellouts?

 

[dan_smee]

No. But being successful does... geez!

 

[Screwtape2]

What. The. Fuck?

How can you be arguing that point? It's a collection of songs! They gave us 2 new songs. And if you want your "creativity" WITS is a different time signature than any other song they've ever made. Intro to Streets, and WITS are the only 6/8 songs tey have. no creativity. GET A CLUE.

They could have done a lot of things for U218.

As for WITS, they still turned it into a radio friendly pop song. The time signature was nice but anytime you write a pop song that sounds like The Beatles you are clearly going for a hit. They took a beach clip that still sounded like the band then turned it into a Beatles song. Clearly they were just trying to sell records instead of seeing where that song could have gone.

 

[dan_smee]

At the risk of getting banned, honestly, it'd be worth it, are you brain damaged? does anything go in?

 

[Mr. V]

At the risk of getting banned, honestly, it'd be worth it, are you brain damaged? does anything go in?

Nah, I'm over arguing with this bloke. Ban me if you want for saying this but he's a stubborn fuck who won't even consider others.

 

[dan_smee]

yep. game is over, I could say the sky was blue, and id be wrong apparently

 

[Mr. V]

PS. If they were real sellouts re: U218 they wouldn't have added two new songs, since they already know that no matter what, the stupid mainstream will buy anything they put out.

 

[dan_smee]

snap

 

[U2girl]

Sweetest Thing was turning into something new but instead they turned it into something that would sell inside of doing the song justice.

Those are two examples of what they could have done. It would have been the more creative thing to have finished Wave of Sorrow. But they wanted something that sold instead of doing something creative.

With Always they something nice to put on an album. Instead they decided to turn it into a hit.

With Native Son, they did the same thing. They went for the simplest rocker so they'd have a hit.

The beach clips were pretty far along. The turned the song into something that would sell.

Clearly creativity comes second to the band when there is a chance at a hit.

What was S. Thing turning into ? The Best of version and the original B-side sound almost exactly the same already.

Wave of sorrow actually is finished, they only added the lyrics. Again no hit there, and certainly no single.

I'd be ashamed for them if Always had made the album when it had the potential they realised in BD, and read again the reason why they re-wrote Native son, it wasn't about money.

How creative can you get with a Best of selection ? You put hits on it and a new song or two. They did that, and actually, Saints did better on radio airplay and charts so there goes your theory that WITS sold U218.

 

[Screwtape2]

You act as if Beautiful Day is just stupid bollocks. Lyrically, it's one of my favourite U2 songs. It's appropriately titled - it is beautiful.

Vertigo is a bit dumbed down, but the band wanted a rocker and they delivered. Do you think they said "Hey, guys, this is good, but let's change it so we can make more money"? Do you not know how much cash they have already?

Of course your entire theory assumes that no hit song has ever been intelligent or creative, which is bologna.

I'd have less of a problem with what you say if you didn't come across as such an asshole.

It is catchy, radio friendly pop that the band created to be a hit.

I don't know what they said exactly but they went from interesting lyrics to the most generic, constant-radio-play rocker you could imagine because it would sell records.

I'm not saying that at all. That's what the band seems to think though.

 

[dan_smee]

The World According to Screwtape:

Anything catchy = Sold out. pfft

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Ouch. Screwgie strikes again!

 

[Screwtape2]

Also, let's not forget that they can't decide to make a song a hit. The public decides that. U2 thought - nay, they were assured - they had a backup #1 in Staring at the Sun. They were wrong. Does that make them sellouts?

You can design songs so they'll be a hit. Which is what U2 is doing these days.