My thoughts on why How to Dismantle sucked

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

In addition to what Brau said, I think that U2 have always recognized boundries in Music. That doesn't mean they don't want to go beyond musical boundries, but they respect them. They built on the pushing of boundries with Achtung through zooropa, passengers and Pop, but had they gone further down that road they may have gotten to the point of no return. I'm not talking about how it would impact sales or how people would accept their music, I'm talking about getting to the point where the music no longer has the basic elements of U2, whatever that is.

 

[rjhbonovox]

In addition to what Brau said, I think that U2 have always recognized boundries in Music. That doesn't mean they don't want to go beyond musical boundries, but they respect them. They built on the pushing of boundries with Achtung through zooropa, passengers and Pop, but had they gone further down that road they may have gotten to the point of no return. I'm not talking about how it would impact sales or how people would accept their music, I'm talking about getting to the point where the music no longer has the basic elements of U2, whatever that is.

I say go down that road, it beats regurgatating songs that sound like they have done them before.

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

I say you find a new emoticon

 

[MrBrau1]

I say go down that road, it beats regurgatating songs that sound like they have done them before.

If you like experimentation so much, there are LOADS of Frank Zappa records for you to discover. You could spend your time enjoying them, instead of making the same post for the 1,140th time.

As a lover of experimental music, you must already own all Zappa's albums?

 

[MrBrau1]

Or maybe you'd like Arc-Weld by Neil Young? 50 minutes of guitar feedback on 1 track. Wonderful album.

Wait, you can't like Neil Young, cause he may experiment alot, but he always returns every few years and make a Crazy Horse or acoustic album, total retreads.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Not a neil young fan, can't stand his singing.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Why is it some of you guys on here have a real sulk if somebody dares criticise the last 2 albums or more to the point the latest album. Why be so defensive, its only discussion and if you like the lastest stuff and think its the greatest thing since sliced bread then good for you. I myself love poppy chart music just not from U2 thats all!

 

[AtomicBono]

What made U2 become U2 is that ability to be both. To release albums like Zooropa & The Unforgettable Fire that have a creative, innovative approach to music, with a real and true soul and depth, but dress it up in all the most successful and memorable pop sensibilities for the masses. Take one away from the other and they are simply not U2. That's one of the reasons why Passengers was put under the name Passengers, not U2. It was a step too far away from what was U2. It's the reason why that journey ended there and hasn't been repeated. These two albums are different because of their mammoth commercial success. I do think the band, given the choice, will take biggest over best. And that's where the challenge is for them. I imagine that in the current environment within the band, a Zooropa or Unforgettable Fire will be trashed and turned into a safe Bomb. The challenge to them is to realise that straight smack in the middle is the best for them, and that's a damn tough thing to do. It takes a lot of blind faith in themselves, and not second guessing their instincts. The challenge for them is to be the biggest AND the best, ie, to keep all parties happy, but most importantly to reposition U2 back where they were. Those that love U2 for their great, tight, sing along songs for the everyman. Those that love U2 for their ability to write the most amazing songs from the soul, that do challenge and embrace you as a fan and take you for a ride, emotionally, musically & sonically. Those within the band that want to stay true to their natural musical development and urges, and those within the band that want to stay true to the mammoth U2 brand name and all that it is worth commercially. An album whose songs will be played alongside Gwen Steffani and Rob Thomas on the average shitty commercial FM station and will gain all the MTV/Top 40 recognition in the world, but songs that will also be played alongside Interpol and Wilco on the more alternative stations and gain all the true musical respect in the world. At the moment they are getting all of one, but none of the other.

So.... at this stage, they need an Achtung Baby or Joshua Tree. The challenge there for the band is to have the balls to aim for that, but be prepared to not quite get there. To get a Zooropa instead of an Achtung, to get an Unforgettable Fire instead of a Joshua Tree. I don't know if they have that in them....

Does that make sense? That's the best way I think I can explain it (and, believe it or not, the shortest).

Yes it makes a great deal of sense, and I agree. I agree with almost everything that you say, except I wouldn't put the last two albums in a completely different category than their other nine albums... the way I see it there is 80's U2, which can be further divided into the more "punk" direct albums (Boy, October, and I'd put War in there too) and the more landscape-ish, sweeping, "mature" albums (UF, JT, and R&H to an extent). Then there's 90's U2 (my personal favourite era. Yes, Pop was my first album and I'm horribly biased. I don't care what anyone else thinks, I think it's the best album ever. That's my opinion.). The 00's U2 is a shift in direction just like the mid 80's and the 90's.

I've made this point before and I'll make it again - people get tired of the same "thing" even if it's really not exactly the same. For example, late 80's - people got tired of the earnest U2 and R&H suffered backlash because of it. With Pop, people were tired of the ironic, experimental U2, and again it suffered backlash, probably worse than ever before. I'm thinking if U2 releases another album too similiar to ATYCLB/HTDAAB - with the whole "back to roots," "appealing to the pop kids" feel (though as far as I'm concerned U2 never really appeals to the pop kids, most people at my school HATE U2. Sad but true.) - they will again suffer backlash. However, they will probably do it anyway, and THEN head in a new direction. So a lot of you may not be happy with U2 til 2012 or however long it takes them to put out two new albums...

That's another thing. I love this band and quality is what counts but they REALLY need to stop taking four years to make an album. Three years is acceptable (though still a little long), anymore than that is just too much. Honestly, I wish they had released How to Dismantle (probably would have had a different title...) in 2003. It's debatable whether the outtakes are better or not - some say hell yes, some say hell no, some are more in the middle (that's where I am, personally. though I'm leaning toward yes). But wouldn't it have been nice to have a U2 album in 2003, tour in 2004, and have U2 be in the studio now? U2 aren't getting any younger and neither am I. I want them to release the best album they can regardless of how long it takes, but I'm thinking in the case of the Bomb they COULD have released it in 2003 and still have been successful. Then again, maybe not. Native Son doesn't have the gimmickry of Vertigo.

Speaking of Vertigo, any lyrical meaning it has is pretty much deemed void after "uno, dos, tres...CATORCE!" Not to mention the "hello hello" chorus complete with random Spanish. Personally I LIKE Vertigo this way, but you have to admit it makes the song far less "deep." You could argue the same for Discotheque with the boom-cha's, but those are only at the end and Discotheque isn't an extremely serious song anyway.

 

[U2DMfan]

The last two albums don't receive near the beating if U2 is putting them out every 2 or 2 1/2 years. We all understand the reasons for the gaps, so just get that out of the way.

In the last 11 years U2 have made 3, U2 albums. You can add at least one more year on top of that, if not two or even three for the next one. There is just not much room for U2 to miss with fans. Compared to a contemporary band like Coldplay (3 albums in 6 years) Radiohead (3 albums in 5 years).

They are obviously at a higher level but have half the opportunity to hit or miss with people. That can effect new fans and old.

I think it's something that is a little overlooked. U2 put out their big huge album with a big huge tour and if you aren't into it, then you are pretty much resigned to back catalog for the next 3 to 4 years.

I happen to think it's creative direction for me. Had U2 made a different song selection for this album, I might very well be praising it.

So I am not far removed from the quality of the music, I am far removed at the direction they want to go. So, like Brau was saying, it is really just a matter of time. (hopefully, as I thought this last go around). I think U2 are gonna REALLY hit or miss with the follow up to HTDAAB. I think they are gonna knock it out of the park or make Rattle and Pop, where people are just over it.

4 years is a long time to fall out of step with your favorite band. Multiply that by 2, and you are likely to feel like you may never get back in step.

 

[U2DMfan]

And no, talking about it isn't going to change anything.

But that's true of 99.9% of the opinions on every message board across the net. They aren't really going to change anything either.

It's just people entertaining themselves. It's interactive.

 

[roy]

Why is it some of you guys on here have a real sulk if somebody dares criticise the last 2 albums or more to the point the latest album. wink:

Because it gets rather irratating reading your exact same criticisms for the 9999956th time (each one followed by an equally annoying ) Don't you get bored repeating yourself over and over again?

 

[U2DMfan]

There aren't enough good threads around to keep us entertained. And for each one there is a good conversation surrounded by the drop-in posters who either take uneccesary potshots at the album and band or just apologize on U2's behalf for anything and everything.

If you want good discussion you've got to avoid those extremes.

I think we've had some interesting dialogue the last few weeks on this forum. I hope we can find new ideas and new angles to talk about. It is getting a bit redundant. Maybe we should have a thread about what the next great thread is going to be.

I am interested in new album news too, we just don't have any.
Until then, it's HTDAAB and maybe for the next 6 months to a year as long as U2 are touring. Things will pick up and get fresh when the tour is winding down.

It might help if any of these god damned brain dead music writers would ask Bono or Edge about the next creative path rather than ask them "what's it like after 25 years" for the 9,000,000th time.
Throw us a bone fellas!!!

 

[rjhbonovox]

Because it gets rather irratating reading your exact same criticisms for the 9999956th time (each one followed by an equally annoying ) Don't you get bored repeating yourself over and over again?

I love these threads they really get the people talking. Oh this ones for you Roy!

 

[BEAL]

U2 don't NEED to do anything. Just face it, YOU NEED U2 to go a different direction. Just because YOU feel that album is subpar or not to your liking, doesn't mean the band feels this way or that people who actually like the music feel this way.

It's ok if you don't like a U2 record. There are other records out there by U2 and other artists that can give you what you want.

You whine that U2 should do another UF or AB, yet if they did make music that was "landscaping" or "experimental", you'd complain that they're just trying to copy their success of AB or Zooropa. It's a no win.

Just enjoy the music if you can. If not, don't listen to it and wait for the next album.

Quit trying to bring down other people's opinion's on the album. If they think it's the best, good for them. If they hate it, fine.

If you're going to post your opinion, good or bad, at least write "In my opinion" before saying anything. Instead, it comes off as FACTS, which nothing that is on these message boards are facts unless it comes directly from the Band themselves.

BLAH

 

[Sleep Over Jack]

Or maybe you'd like Arc-Weld by Neil Young? 50 minutes of guitar feedback on 1 track. Wonderful album.

ahahahahaha

 

[U2girl]

U2 don't NEED to do anything. Just face it, YOU NEED U2 to go a different direction. Just because YOU feel that album is subpar or not to your liking, doesn't mean the band feels this way or that people who actually like the music feel this way.

It's ok if you don't like a U2 record. There are other records out there by U2 and other artists that can give you what you want.

You whine that U2 should do another UF or AB, yet if they did make music that was "landscaping" or "experimental", you'd complain that they're just trying to copy their success of AB or Zooropa. It's a no win.

Just enjoy the music if you can. If not, don't listen to it and wait for the next album.

Quit trying to bring down other people's opinion's on the album. If they think it's the best, good for them. If they hate it, fine.

If you're going to post your opinion, good or bad, at least write "In my opinion" before saying anything. Instead, it comes off as FACTS, which nothing that is on these message boards are facts unless it comes directly from the Band themselves.

BLAH

Maybe now people will get what's bugging fans of the last two albums.

 

[thrillme]

I'll just repeat this, a majority of posts, not just this forum, are opinions.

You want facts, Free Your Mind has plenty of discussion of things based on fact, there is a war in Iraq, etc., someone saying "Atomic Bomb" is a bad album, is an opinion.

Larry Mullen Jr. started U2. (fact)

Atomic Bomb sucks. (opinion)

Music like art is entirely subjective, I think people forget that.

I'd say U2 fans are much nicer about criticism than other bands.

I got slammed for my opinion of the Beatles, but this was on a U2 board, had I done this at a Beatles forum, yikes!

There is no room for criticism for some bands.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

I'll just repeat this, a majority of posts, not just this forum, are opinions.

You want facts, Free Your Mind has plenty of discussion of things based on fact, there is a war in Iraq, etc., someone saying "Atomic Bomb" is a bad album, is an opinion.

Larry Mullen Jr. started U2. (fact)

Atomic Bomb sucks. (opinion)

Music like art is entirely subjective, I think people forget that.

I'd say U2 fans are much nicer about criticism than other bands.

I got slammed for my opinion of the Beatles, but this was on a U2 board, had I done this at a Beatles forum, yikes!

There is no room for criticism for some bands.

but what about the people who have the opinion bomb is the best album? then couple of second later are getting TOLD that its not, and there wrong

 

[thrillme]

but what about the people who have the opinion bomb is the best album? then couple of second later are getting TOLD that its not, and there wrong

Just keep reminding yourself music is subjective, and enjoy what you like.

*goes to listen to Atomic Bomb*

 

[rjhbonovox]

but what about the people who have the opinion bomb is the best album? then couple of second later are getting TOLD that its not, and there wrong

Cos people who think HTDAAB is their best album have cotton wool in their ears, surely!

 

[ElectricalVoice]

Many old fans hate these two albums. Stuck in a moment they can't get out of. But I think U2 couldn't care less. New fans are coming all the time. I love to see a lot of new fans coming to the concert and have just discovered U2 through HTDAAB. Great to see. It's a great album. Especially when we see that U2 gets lots of new fans because of it. Just because someone is stuck in JT-era or AB-era and claim that everything was so much better before, doesn't mean that they are right. One shouldn't ask the old fans if the album is great, one should adress the question to new fans. Because U2 wants to get through to new people. And they do.

 

[Irishteen]

The only way people are gonna be happy is if U2 make 3 different albums at the same time

1. One experimental
2. One no experimenting
3. The Joshua tree 2

Would you all be happy then. U2 experimenting some liked it others didn't, like me i don't love Pop or Zooropa, Pop has 7 great songs the rest is crap(My Opinion) Zooropa had the amazing Stay, the good The First time, and Numb off the top of my head thats all i really like. ATYCLB whats so bad with this, its brillant, if U2 made this instead of Zooropa and Pop, I would have been happier, this album is a amazing record, it may be a bit pop, but look at the music put there, this is rock, mayhbe int he 80's this would be Pop but no wit is Rock and great rock. HTDAAB Good album no bad songs, so it already sounds better then Zooropa and Pop to me, so the songs aren't as good as the last album it rocks harder and is great. I would love a UF 2, JT 2, or AB 2, they all ruled, but they will not come, U2 will make the music they want and I will listen to it, and decide my opinion then. All U2 albums have been good but 3 have not been great, I just hope U2 will make a good record, It doesn't matter to me if its experimental or regular, or anything, U2 are always good 85% of the time great or better, so i look forward to what ever they do next another HTDAAB, another ATYCLB, another Pop even. I will be happy with what ever U2 do, because I like most music. Some dance, some rap, rock, heavy metal, some pop, so U2 have my support what ever they do, unlike most people I don't care what U2 do because I know it will be good if not great.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Many old fans hate these two albums. Stuck in a moment they can't get out of. But I think U2 couldn't care less. New fans are coming all the time. I love to see a lot of new fans coming to the concert and have just discovered U2 through HTDAAB. Great to see. It's a great album. Especially when we see that U2 gets lots of new fans because of it. Just because someone is stuck in JT-era or AB-era and claim that everything was so much better before, doesn't mean that they are right. One shouldn't ask the old fans if the album is great, one should adress the question to new fans. Because U2 wants to get through to new people. And they do.

Like I have said before, U2 are just interested in the "Pop" kids that they couldn't give a fuck about all through the 90's.

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

They lost and gained lots of listeners in the 90s. They Lost and gained lots of listeners post 2000. Who cares?

For a guy that thinks U2 repeats themselves you are quite a caricature of yourself. One could say you're an Oxymoron



Edited to add. Technically it's not an oxymoron but hey, it's a great word

 

[2Hearts]

Like I have said before, U2 are just interested in the "Pop" kids that they couldn't give a fuck about all through the 90's.

How are they drawing in "Pop" kids with Adult Contemporary music?

 

[2Hearts]

Like I have said before, U2 are just interested in the "Pop" kids that they couldn't give a fuck about all through the 90's.

I think you meant "all through the '80s" instead of '90s. The '90s U2 targeted a younger audience than the one that had grown up with them in the '80s.

Irishteen, ATYCLB and HTDAAB are your albums, so enjoy them. Just like AB/Zooropa/Pop belong to those of us who grew up in the '90s. I started liking U2 in '96, but that didn't stop me from liking the '80s albums just as much. It also didn't stop me from being able to follow them into the future.

 

[MrBrau1]

How are they drawing in "Pop" kids with Adult Contemporary music?

Just ignore RJ. He's the Woody Woodpecker of this board. An instigator with no real insight or perspective. There are plenty of great posters to argue with. RJ isn't one of them. It's easy to get sucked in, but you'll never get more than 1 sentence and a as a reply.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Just ignore RJ. He's the Woody Woodpecker of this board. An instigator with no real insight or perspective. There are plenty of great posters to argue with. RJ isn't one of them. It's easy to get sucked in, but you'll never get more than 1 sentence and a as a reply.

Ok Ok Ok.....this is for you Mr Brau

 

[Sleep Over Jack]

Ponkine runs rjhbonovox pretty close...

 

[2Hearts]

There are plenty of great posters to argue with. RJ isn't one of them.

I'm not going to degrade any particular posters, but I will commend Zootlesque and Earnie for their insights into the mind of a dissenter.

(I can do the 1 sentence w/ emoticon thing too)