Indulge me as I rant

[Basstrap]

I figure I should just have it out here once and for all so I can stop bitching on all the other forums.

My beef with U2:

today Streets came on the radio at work. It was the first time I have heard them in a long time...and my heart skipped a beat to hear one of my favorite songs of all time.
It's then I remembered, putting aside all my aquired indie sensibility, why I love(d) U2.

I don't think anyone could argue that U2 possess anymore talent at songwriting than most bands. There are certainly more brilliant songwriters, anyway.
So what was is about U2 that set them apart?
it was raw emotion.

listening to Ultraviolet or Streets or Please just makes you want to find some rain and dance in it. Or scream. Or laugh.
There are not many bands that can find that and incorporate it into their music. But U2 did.

then there was Ground Beneath Her Feet and stateless

and then U2 died

All the emotion and art was sucked from their songs leaving them lifeless pleas for media attention. The only time they even approach their former greatness in maybe in Walk On and Kite...but even these feel formulaic and 'by - the - numbers'

It's like they took a few templates and molds from the story of pop music and churned out a few easily forgettable tunes.

now it's lame press photos of four aging men hanging out in an airport
now it's bono and his senile speeches. Don't you ever wish he'd go the way of The Edge?...speak when spoken to.

for all the talk of soul they seem to have lost it.
You can always smell when someone is trying to hard...and ATYCLB tried so hard to change your life that it embaressed me. I was embarssed for them (even though I know it was a huge smash hit)

And that's where I lie now,
I'm nervous about the new album cos I know it could make me or break me. I want so much to put on the first track and get some ass kicking intro like zooropa...I want to hear a song that makes me shake like With or Without You or get angry like Wake Up Dead Man or dream like Sort of Homecoming.

But I don't think I'll get my wish.
what I'll get is more million dollar music videos

whatever happened to fuck the mainstream?

 

[popsadie]

ok...yet another thinly velied ATYCLB bashing...yawn. I don't agree...I haven't been listening to U2 that regularly lately, but I put in ATYCLB and still find alot of power and joy in Beautiful Day and Walk On....different strokes I suppose.

 

[Basstrap]

ok...yet another thinly velied ATYCLB bashing...yawn.

yeah,
that's what it is

nevermind

 

[thrillme]

Well I'm a newbie (oops, ATYCLB attracted a newer younger audience). Actually when I bought it, and read some of the lyrics, I didn't think it was pop at all. Thought it was kinda too realistic, Kite, Stuck in a Moment, it wasn't exactly, "Hit me baby one more time." Or like some other songs I viewed as "pop."

I've heard lots of the rants people have with U2 after the Zooropa album. I've read posts of people who think Zooropa has a few good songs, but the rest is forgettable.

U2's my favorite band now, and nothing they've done has affected that. *ducks rotten tomatoes* They're my Beatles, except I like them wayyyyyy more than the Beatles. I really don't care for many of the Beatles early songs. she loves you yeah yeah, lmnop I think you're swell, obladi oblada?

 

[beli]

BassTrap, I agree with you.

The whole point of U2, for me, me, me, and Im writing about ME here (everyone else is entitled to their own opinion), is the passion. I love the energy of their music and Bonos waffly singing.

And I do find some of their recent output to be lacking in the ole passion department.

Im hoping it was just a phase.

Although the length of time taken to produce their new album scares me a little bit I really hope they have gone back to their roots or whatever it was that Neil McCormick (sp?) said.

Bono does seem to still have fire in his belly for his charity work. If that depth of pain etc can come across in the new album I will be one happy camper.

Dunno about the other 3. We havent heard from them in so long. I hope they have "maintained the rage", so to speak.

Im still excited about the new album. They have done good 'stuff' before and they can do it again, if they want to

[size=1l]PS Can we PLEASE have a thread that doesnt degenerate into a Pop verses ATYCLB bun fight. Lets keep it to the BassTraps original post ie the raw emotion of U2s music. [/size]

 

[Axver]

So I guess, according to the logic of ATYCLB having bad song writing, the only tracks on it are Elevation and Wild Honey?

 

[beli]

 

[Basstrap]

I think bono is a great man.
He is doing more than more celebrities to do something good in this world.
I guess I just get sick of the guy trying to describe the albums way before they come out.
the last one was titanium soul
this one is the edge rocking out

but that's what people want, so who am I?

I'm exited about the new album too...apprehensive...but exited.
They've made so many good songs, it's hard to think they've forgotten how.
maybe even just a glimpse of great guitar work like in The Fly or the dynamic songwriting in zooropa would restore my faith!

or maybe something that sounds really new and original while remaining u2

the possibilities are very exiting!!!

 

[Basstrap]

oooh!
I know what I'm gonna do when I buy the album

wall myself up all day and listen to it 20 times

 

[Salome]

I don't listen to U2 just because of their energy
it's one element they've got

fucking up the mainstream also is only fun for a couple of years
U2 could probably poop out an album filled with indie sensibility every other year
it's an easier trick than trying to write songs in a way that's new to you

 

[iota]

I agree with Basstrap. ATYCLB was painful. I was in high school during ZooTV and I really got into U2 during those years. I'm not sure I can fully describe what attracted me; the bitttersweetness, the raw emotion of it, the poetic excellence of the lyrics, their unique brand of Christian spirituality, etc. I was on pins and needles waiting four years for the album that turned out to be Pop, and with that album, I became slightly disinterested. The lyrics were like Bono trying to imitate himself and they just came off as second rate. That's my main beef with ATYCLB...the sheer sappiness of it. "Peace on Earth"? "When I Look At The World"...(thinking that there may be a song on the next album called 'love and peace or else" makes me cringe.) I guess it seems like trying too hard, whereas Achtung and Zooropa seemed so effortlessly heavy and lightheaded simultaneously. I'm encouraged by Electrical Storm...that song was just first rate anyway you look at it. And the horrendously bad quality leaks of Vertigo and All Because of You are exciting. Hopefully this album steers clear of the overly sentimental sap-fests. Consider me cautiously optimistic for this new album, which incidently, if it's called "How To Dismantle an Atomic Bomb," I'll have to conclude that they are purposely trying to come up with bad album titles after ATYCLB.

 

[JOFO]

U2 could probably poop out an album filled with indie sensibility every other year
it's an easier trick than trying to write songs in a way that's new to you

truest statement of the year.

 

[ylimeU2]

I'll admit ATYCLB isn't my favorite album. But then again, I've never "loved" a U2 album until the next one came along, and only then do I realize the album's full potential. I still think that there are some really strong, emotional songs on it. For example, 'Wild Honey' may seem popish and simple, but I think there is some real depth to it. It seems like a catchy love song, but if you really think about the lyrics, there is a lot of raw uncertainty there.

Just becasue something sounds like pop music doesn't mean that it is. Pop music has no depth at all. It's catchy, maybe a little fun, but at the end of the week, you're over it. Four years later, we are still talking about ATYCLB.

 

[u2ulysses]

yeah,
that's what it is

nevermind

Sorry, but that's what it sounds like to me as well.

And for all of your praise of songs like "Streets", I can think of a lot of "crap" (IMO) that U2 produced during that era as well. Horrid, horrid songs like "Trip Through Your Wires" and "Trying to Throw Your Arms around the World" make me cringe. Half the studio songs on R&H seem like filler (if they were paying homage to someone, I'd be insulted if I were that person).

In other words, there is excitement and "dullness" in every era of U2's songs. You stated two - "Kite" and "Walk On". I would thrown in "Beautiful Day" as well. And I still love "Elevation" - sure there's a silly "mole in a hole" line, but the thought of God and the singer (the "I and I") being together with God being the savior to truly lift one up is incredibly inspirational. Additionally, the song just rocks!

Therefore, I cannot relate at all to your feelings and it does sound like you are bashing the new.

 

[RademR]

i dont know but for what its worth, that was a great rant, basstrap.

I loved ATYCLB, but its definetly not my favorite u2 album. They achieved what they wanted to with it, make a mainstream album with pop feel to it. I think this new record will be a different sound (like every other one has been) and I hope both me and you are happy with it.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Basstrap,

Fair enough. It's nice to get honesty from people, and even U2 would have it no other way. I remember an interview from 1981 that I saw a few years back when Bono said he'd hope that the moment they became cliche "wallpaper" music, that people would come up to them and tell them so. He insisted that that day would never happen. Interesting stuff.....

Now to my opinion: I actually feel that Pop was the album where U2 began to cator a little too heavily to the commercial aspect of U2. By that I mean, they allowed the commercial necessity ("necessity" because U2 is a business as well, afterall) to overtake the artistic one. Before this, both were in balance...but with Pop I felt there was much more of a compromise than there was in the past. The songwriting suddenly had an agenda - U2 were now catering to the commercial viability of, in this case, the electronica storm (that ironically never came). Pop was an album that took a risk commercially, but not because U2 didn't want to compromise, but because electronica simply might not (and didn't) become the "next big thing" in the mainstream as they had hoped it would.

Further, songs such as 'Wake Up Dead Man', while formulated to sound desperate and intimate, were still a formulation. In other words, it sounds forced (to me), as did a few others. This trend continued with ATYCLB. It's no longer "songwriting by accident". U2 songs now sound like they've been constructed with the end in mind. To me, the magic that you find in a great song (not just U2, but anyone) usually comes when the "accident" happens - songs such as 'One', 'Bad', and probably half of The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby were born this way. That's the U2 I miss. ATYCLB does have some accidental songwriting. 'Kite' is by no coincidence one of those songs. It's the best thing they've done since 'Stay' in my opinion.

Another point: In my opinion, the only time in the last couple years where U2 really took a break from this type of compromising was during the M$H soundtrack recordings. I adore 'Stateless'. It's got that evocative, organic feel that most closely resembles The Joshua Tree. Songs like 'Never Let Me Go' are what I used to love about U2 - songs that allow you to float down a river or a sea shore or a field or a winter night by a fire and wash you up on a beach somwhere to let you soak in the flickering light of the sublime. Songs that take you places.

The songwriting on ATYCLB is actually very subtle in some ways, but that's probably not what is meant when people complain that it is "trying too hard". Songs such as 'Stuck' and 'Wild Honey' come across as effortless, but they're highly orchestrated. This is something to be admired, yes, but it's a different kind of songwriting than I'm used to from U2. I miss the "accidents".

 

[tarquinsuperb]

I'm going to be incredibly bitchy here so forgive me, but is the only reason anyone has a problem with ATYCLB is because in many ways they wish they were ten year's younger.
That album did change they way I looked at a lot of things not least of all music but are you saying I've been conned into that just by clever marketing?

 

[beli]

tarquinsuperb,

Wished U2 were 10 years younger?

Or the person listening wished he/she were 10 years younger?

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Are you asking me? If so, no, that wasn't my point at all. I'm basically saying that their modus operandi has changed in that they now seem to begin an album with an agenda rather than simply letting the ebb and flow dictate the direction and course of an album. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm simply saying I preferred it when U2 let the music shape itself rather than the other way around.

 

[tarquinsuperb]

Is it that you believe the quality of music has become a secondary concern and they enter the studio and go "Well we've had fun with it in the past, but the record company President needs another 20 million record sales so go heavy on the production and we'll start promoting it ASAP....."?
The other thing that's been hinted at is that doesn't an album of 'accidents' give a really disjointed feel?

 

[beli]

Michael, sorry that was a question for Tarquin.

I do agree with you though Michael

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Is it that you believe the quality of music has become a secondary concern and they enter the studio and go "Well we've had fun with it in the past, but the record company President needs another 20 million record sales so go heavy on the production and we'll start promoting it ASAP....."?
The other thing that's been hinted at is that doesn't an album of 'accidents' give a really disjointed feel?

No, I don't think the quality of music has become a secondary concern. In fact, if anything I would say that U2 have never been so concerned with "quality" as they are now. I think that's partly what I don't like. Because the stakes are so high now, U2 don't take as many artistic risks. They want the music to be accepted as classic to a mass audience. This requires an agenda, and this, in turn, requires one to craft songs in a particular mold. I don't think it's about money at all.

Regarding your 2nd point: I don't think accidental songwriting would necessarily result in a disjointed feel. Look at The Unforgettable Fire, for example. Many of the tracks were improvised. The only real songwriter's song is 'Pride'. The rest were born through experimenting while jamming and coming up with atmospheres and ideas on the spot. The music was born out of "feeling" and hoping the next step would lead to a place where a song would begin to take shape. Just as 'Bad' did. That's where the magic comes in (for me anyway).

 

[Bono's shades]

I understand how you feel, Basstrap. I have moments when I wonder if U2 really have the fire and passion that they used to have. I didn't hear a whole lot of that in ATYCLB, although Electrical Storm was a nice improvement, IMHO. I'm genuinely excited about the new album, but this tiny little voice in my head keeps warning me not to get my hopes up too high. I guess I'm afraid of another letdown.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Michael, sorry that was a question for Tarquin.

I do agree with you though Michael

haha, beli, the funny part is that my response was also for Tarquin! I really must use the quote feature more!

 

[beli]

ditto re the quote feature. We shall just sit and wait for tarquin, then

 

[tarquinsuperb]

Sorry I don't normally get involved in stand up rows with people on here, I'm normal very uncontraversial so agologies for that.
I don't actually know how to use the quote mark things but I think in the second last post we found why we disagree, for me and maybe this displays my relative youth I don't know, but the only U2 I've not 'got' (don't quite understand) is UF.
Sure I adore Pride but the album like so many of U2's has never been close to hair's on the back of the neck for me.
I don't know maybe we could divert the forum and someone could explain it to me.
PS I think I've been further and unnecessarily put off by the fact that it's Chris Martin's favourite U2 album.

 

[beli]

to use the quote thingies - go to the bottom right hand corner of the post you want to quote and hit the quote button

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Tarquin - you know, our tastes...it's all subjective. You do raise an interesting thought for me though: I wonder if U2 has simply adapted to the modern world, leaving us fans of not just a different style, but a different time. Perhaps it is U2 who should be commended if this is the case. They've managed to stay current, while the rest of us yearn for a different time and, in some ways, a different band. I suppose it's a commentary on how our society has evolved (or maybe devolved) when a band has to rearrange their philosophy on how to write great music in order to stay relavent. This is all theory, mind you. Simply put, I prefer the magic - man.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Oh, I forgot to add, tarquin - I think you not "getting" The Unforgettable Fire is perhaps case in point of my theory that U2 have adapted to changing times. Art imitates life, they say, and U2 imitate a different life now. But you will get UF one day, don't you worry! It's one of those albums that kind of sneaks up, settles down, and dissolves into your skin, eventually making its way to your heart. It's the innocence of that record that gets me everytime - it's U2 before they had any influences....U2 writing songs that reminded you of no one but them and your deepest emotions. I don't think any band today, including U2, would ever put a song like 'Elvis Presely and America' on it. But on UF, it's seductive...a language all its own that we all somehow understand (don't worry, you will! )

 

[martha]

I wonder if U2 has simply adapted to the modern world, leaving us fans of not just a different style, but a different time. Perhaps it is U2 who should be commended if this is the case. They've managed to stay current, while the rest of us yearn for a different time and, in some ways, a different band.

Evolution and adaptation are fine, but if it means making records that don't challenge the ears and the head, then I'll walk on all fours, thanks. Staying current shouldn't mean making records that get played to soothe and pacify, and that's what I heard with ATYCLB.

I'm with you, Michael, Basstrap, beli, and the rest. I want the new record to knock me back in my chair with the power of the words, the music, and the commitment. I don't want to "feel ten years younger" (whatever that means); I want music that makes my heart race and my mind boggle.