can't we all just get along? (regarding N'sync dissing)

[pvanort]

how would you feel if you were at a N'sync forum and people started picking on U2?[/B]

Even 24 hrs. later, I still dig this one! Heh Heh...

I'm thinking of hunting down an "N'Sync" forum, and starting a U2 bashing thread, just to see what it would churn up...



------------------
"I'm already gone... Felt that way all along..."

 

[Saracene]

Personally, I think that good music comes from all kinds of places. I really don't care if an artist or a band play their own instruments or not, if the band was manufactured or worked their way up through the small clubs. People like Destiny's Child or Britney Spears work their asses off just as hard as U2 do, they give 110% to their jobs. A lot of budding girl/boybands often work very hard for a very little money. For me, manufactured music only becomes really intolerable only when it's nearly the only kind of music I hear on the radio and TV.

Plus, there are many reasons for listening and loving music. Some people want their music to be meaningful and honest, to be about real emotions and feelings, while others just want a catchy sexy song to dance to. Or they may listen to music for all those reasons altogether. Or maybe music doesn't play an important part in their lives at all and they'll just listen to whatever there is on the radio. And not one of those reasons is any more "valid" or "important" than the others.

 

[Salome]

I don't like 'n synch
almost no-one here does
--> I don't need 8 threads in one day to tell me that 'n synch sucks


------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[shaun vox]

you all suck,oh its time to go on my gay bashing now.
boy zone rule(in pop)and they are irish and were in the sweetest thing video.

------------------
"BONO'S PRAYER HEAVENS AIR"

Dont be a player hater.

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by The Wanderer:
what the fuck?

U2girl = cindy brady?

who's cindy brady? someone from that US TV thing Brady bunch?



------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
I believe many here need to simply calm down and don't take things too personally. Keep the discussion civil, and the discussion can also remain substantive.

An extreme case proves my point: imagine you have an average five-year-old child and the child writes a story about his day at the park. Compare the story to Shakespeare's Hamlet. Because of personal reasons, you may love your child's story; and you may have personally never gotten "into" Shakespeare. But even then, I believe NO ONE will HONESTLY suggest that the stories are comparable in quality, or that there is no meaning in suggesting that Shakespeare is an objectively better writer.

Shakespeare's works ARE BETTER than the works of an average five-year-old -- hell, probably better than the works of the most gifted child prodigy.

i agree with you on that first paragraph-things need to be civil. some people don't seem to be able to do just that...

that IS an extreme example-of COURSE Shakespeare is better than a 5 year old.

but i think i wasn't getting through to you when i said that about "yes or no in liking the music" thing.

what i meant was: music, like art in general, is popular because it moves you. it reaches places other areas of life may not. you LIKE music not because it's good, but because it does something inside you. it either grabs you or not.

(examples:
critics and music magazines praised Nirvana, right? well, they don't do anything for me. am i gonna start screaming "Nirvana sucks" and making offensive comments just because I don't like them? of course not

or: just because U2 is my favorite band, i'm not gonna jam their music into someone's throat and say: U2 is the best, what you listen to sucks!
other people may not like U2, and i'm not gonna argue with them. if they like them, that's ok. and if not, that's fine by me too. just don't expect me to cheer for someone i don't like musically.

or: that whole Limp/Bizkit/Papa roach etc. "nu metal" scene doesn't do anything for me. but i'm not gonna diss them, i'll just stay away from their music.)

i'm not a music critic, and i don't know anything about notes, but i like different types of music-im' not excluding anything in advance-i listen to a song/a band, then decide whether i like it or not.
so N'sync fans like them because they find their music special, just like we find U2 special.

all i'm saying is we can all co-exist peacefully. no-one is saying we should all clap to these produced boy bands, but there's no need for all that attacking.

also, let me quote Noel Gallagher: "Who's to deny Steps (a produced girl-guy band) the right to make a living? If people will buy it, people will make it big."


------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat


[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-08-2001).]

 

[Diemen]

*Looks at thread*

WHY???? For the love of God, Why even bother?????

I'm reminded of a saying "Those who fail to learn from their past are doomed to repeat it."

And now....the pattern of U2girl's posting:
60% - Anything U2 related, even if she already posted a thread with the exact same topic 2 times before
10% - Replying to another topic by starting a new thread, rather than replying in that topic
30% - Finding out something that virtually everybody else agrees on, and then posting something in direct opposition to it, and calling it "discussion" even though absolutely no progress is made and major points are not taken into consideration and only selective parts of posts are replied to.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 09-08-2001).]

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Diemen:
*Looks at thread*

WHY???? For the love of God, Why even bother?????

I'm reminded of a saying "Those who fail to learn from their past are doomed to repeat it."

And now....the pattern of U2girl's posting:
60% - Anything U2 related, even if she already posted a thread with the exact same topic 2 times before
10% - Replying to another topic by starting a new thread, rather than replying in that topic
30% - Finding out something that virtually everybody else agrees on, and then posting something in direct opposition to it, and calling it "discussion" even though absolutely no progress is made and major points are not taken into consideration and only selective parts of posts are replied to.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 09-08-2001).]

you know why. just read my posts in this thread.

(and YAY! another person insisting on making it personal)

as for the pattern of my posting...
-that "anything U2 related" percentage should be higher. as for repeating myself-is that a crime? it's not like other people don't do it too. and if repeating a topic happened, i'm sure i explained why it was done in the thread.
- instead of replying to every single thread that contained N'sync dissing, i replied to all of them in here.
-

nice try. this was not "finding something everyone agrees on" and going against it, it was just an attempt to cut those guys some slack.
- trust me, all points WERE taken into consideration.

ps: in spite of me telling you opposite, you remain convinced that i was sure U2 was calling it quits...is this post some kind of revenge?


------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat

[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-08-2001).]

 

[NicaMom]

just because U2 is my favorite band, i'm not gonna jam their music into someone's throat and say: U2 is the best, what you listen to sucks!

Of course you're not and we are not either!
I don't recall any N'Stink fans around here, so why make a big deal with this thread?
We're allowed to talk about them if we want to, they're sadly ripping off U2's Pop!
-------------------
N'Stink has no talent

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Thanks for the reply, U2girl.

Yeah, there aare times that we could do with more civility.

Anyway...

Yeah, the Shakespeare/five-year-old may have been an extreme example, but I believe that it proves my point, that everyone will admit the extreme example holds true, and that therefore the more common cases hold: My point is that there *is* good music and bad music, and that we can (and, to perhaps a small degree, we should) impune the really bad music out there.

I can understand that some N*Sync fans are really moved by their albums, and of course the right to listen to it, but it's still bad music.

Another example might help:

The movie Titanic was essentially a crap movie -- a predictable chick flick with a huge budget, a big marketing machine, and the critics' support. It had a VERY juvenile script with an immature romance and one-dimensional characterization. It trivialized one of the worst disasters of the twentieth century so that fourteen-year-old girls (surprisingly, the same audience N*Sync aims for) could swoon and cry over Leonardo DiCaprio.

The film did move a LOT of people, and they have the right to watch, enjoy, and be so moved. BUT, insofar as one can objectively analyze art, one has the right to put forth his beliefs on whether the art is good or bad.

And in certain contexts -- such as this forum -- I think it's okay to criticize with a good deal of gusto, passion, and humor.

Seriously, N*Sync is a crap group, and yet their albums sell faster than other, much more worth groups. I believe many here are simply disgusted with a culture that would so embrace mediocrity over excellence.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

 

[SkeeK]

U2girl, you say that music should be personal and touch you... I agree.

From the time I spent on the NSync message board back during the little invasion (trying to get to know these bizarre creatures) I learned that NSync fans don't care about that stuff at all. When discussing live shows they said that they don't care if the lyrics are meaningful, they just want cool costumes and cool dance moves that fit the song.

That's their opinion, but THAT SUCKS!

And you almost gotta feel sorry for them... but naaaah.

 

[SicilianGoddess]

Originally posted by Salome:
I don't like 'n synch
almost no-one here does
--> I don't need 8 threads in one day to tell me that 'n synch sucks

Amen to that.

------------------
The Chairs Are All Stacked
The Swinging's Stopped Swinging

Sicy's Website

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:

Yeah, the Shakespeare/five-year-old may have been an extreme example, but I believe that it proves my point, that everyone will admit the extreme example holds true, and that therefore the more common cases hold: My point is that there *is* good music and bad music, and that we can (and, to perhaps a small degree, we should) impune the really bad music out there.

I can understand that some N*Sync fans are really moved by their albums, and of course the right to listen to it, but it's still bad music.

Another example might help:

The movie Titanic was essentially a crap movie -- a predictable chick flick with a huge budget, a big marketing machine, and the critics' support. It had a VERY juvenile script with an immature romance and one-dimensional characterization. It trivialized one of the worst disasters of the twentieth century so that fourteen-year-old girls (surprisingly, the same audience N*Sync aims for) could swoon and cry over Leonardo DiCaprio.

The film did move a LOT of people, and they have the right to watch, enjoy, and be so moved. BUT, insofar as one can objectively analyze art, one has the right to put forth his beliefs on whether the art is good or bad.

And in certain contexts -- such as this forum -- I think it's okay to criticize with a good deal of gusto, passion, and humor.

thank you for answering.

well, of course we all agree that there is good and bad music. there are better bands and there are, errr, not so good bands.
the thing with art is that (be it good or bad), it still comes down to personal taste.

example: The Beatles are widely accepted as the best band ever.
but does that mean everyone likes them? not necessarily.

or: N'sync is "crap" to some people. but to others it's the best group there is.

do you know what i mean?
yes, something can be good in the artistic sense-but at the same time it may not be loved by lots of people. if you're very "artsy", you risk that you won't get a big audience.

HEY! i liked Titanic!

but not everyone likes Leonardo-me, for example. and he wasn't the reason i liked it. i liked his character in the movie, not his looks. and i was moved by the inevitable sad ending of the love story.
as for his acting-he was GREAT in Something's eating Gilbert Grape.

but back to the topic: i don't mind objective critisism (such as the not singing live, produced group, cliche lyrics etc...). what i do mind is spitting rage, offensive pictures and things to say about them, and using the "arguments" like "they suck".

as for not writing their own material: hmmm. there was, is, and probably will be a LOT of that.
(Elvis didn't write his songs, did he? or Celine Dion, Janet Jackson-lyrics only?, Madonna-except lyrics, Whitney Houston, bands doing covers, hip hop using samples etc...)
i don't have a problem with not writing your own material:
- IF the singer is good. like Celine, or Whitney, or Mariah Carey, Sinatra...
-IF something new is made with the sample (like Every Breath you take-I'll be missing you connection)
-IF the cover is good (like Beatles covering Twist and shout)

i'm indifferent, when it comes to boy bands. i'm neither "yay" nor am i "boo" about it.
i notice them, but i don't pay attention to them. to me, they're just out there-you know?


------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat

 

[Red Ships of Scalla-Festa]

well, i for one have every legal right to be as bashful as i want, and i am bashing nsync hard. i want to cut their kids in half.

their answer will NEVER be fries.

dieman, your post about breaking down her posting patterns is surprisingly accurate.

------------------
-deathbear

 

[Sicy]

U2girl how many wpm do you type?



------------------
There are barn doors
And there are revolving doors

 

[Calluna]

Originally posted by Red Ships of Scalla-Festa:

their answer will NEVER be fries.

I agree wholeheartedly.

------------------
Remember the goul.

Shake n' bake
Do whatever it takes

[This message has been edited by Calluna (edited 09-08-2001).]

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

Originally posted by Deathbear's Fly Girl:
U2girl how many wpm do you type?

LOL Sicilian...
I believe the appropriate question is "how many ppm?" Posts Per Minute, see?

------------------
"If I am close to the music, and you are close to the music, we are close to each other." -Bono

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Deathbear's Fly Girl:
U2girl how many wpm do you type?

? you mean, how fast i type? i don't know-average, i guess.


------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat

 

[DebbieSG]

We all thought the BeeGees were the Greatest Thing in the late 70's, that was all people were talking about, comparing them to the Beatles, interviews everywhere. Then they just went flop. Why? It was just a cultural phenomena, and the music didn't have any real substance. NSynch is doing the same, just providing excitement for the masses, but no lasting musical brilliance. They won't be around long because people will catch on that the music itself is lacking.

So the airwaves get flooded with this "hot" new sound and serious music lovers have to be cringing. The music just isn't good enough to justify all the attention. So it leads people to finally say "they suck."

You gotta have a band like U2 around to set a standard for good music. Compared to them, NSynch is, IMO just a craze.

 

[Diemen]

Originally posted by U2girl:


ps: in spite of me telling you opposite, you remain convinced that i was sure U2 was calling it quits...is this post some kind of revenge?

Um, actually no, I'm not convinced you were sure U2 was calling it quits. I just don't understand why you had to address the same topic when it was already argued to the fullest extent in the first one.

And that post wasn't revenge, it was simply frustration at this whole thread. You should know by now the responses you're going to get when you post something like this. What is the point? We understand your point that yeah, maybe we go a little overboard, but honestly, if you listened to N'Sync's music you'd realize that a lot of your points aren't valid because a)they don't even write their own songs, heck - they can't even CHOOSE their own songs - the bigwigs choose what songs are going to be on their album based on how well they will sell, simple as that. Second, the song topics are nothing new and aren't even original in the way they deal with it. Now, this music might be appealing to people who simply aren't in touch with deep emotion, but when this music starts winning awards left and right, it's a sign that something is seriously messed up with the music industry.

And that's really what I think the majority of us are mad about. We put a lot of the blame onto N'Sync because they are, let's face it, the spearhead and the stereotypical image of the boy band movement. Do you think that N'Sync is in control of their music? No. You think it was N'Sync's idea to borrow the "let's point out the rampant consumerism in society" idea? Yeah right. N'Sync has little if any artistic say in their music. Other people write, produce, play, plan and strategize their music, their image, and their tours. I find that repulsive.

Maybe the guys in N'Sync are pretty cool guys (but after watching Justin Timberlake blabber on and on at the VMA's acting like he thinks he's a comedian, I know he's not). I bet when they each auditioned for this, they wanted their shot at stardom, and I can't fault them for that - who wouldn't want a glimpse of stardom? But N'Sync the band is an affront to a music industry that used to honor hard work (and by hard work I don't mean practicing long hours on your dance routines) and slugging it out in the clubs and hitting the street to get the word out before you could get your taste of glory, rather than having so many corporate big-wigs throwing money around to win influence that your success is nothing more than a clear-cut formula in which you are generally not all that important.

So I think a lot of the stuff being said about N'Sync the group (rather than the indivduals within it) is deserved.

 

[U2One]

I haven't read some of the posts in this thread (at least not the long ones), but I saw the title and read what U2girl wrote about not ripping on N'sync. What the hell are you talking about?! This is a U2 forum for god's sake!!!!! We're going to talk shit about N'sync until they fade away like all other boy bands. Especially now, since those bastards decided to copy U2's PoPmart. N'sync deserve all the shit they get on this forum, and I really hope that it doesn't stop anytime soon. I've never said anything bad about anyone in this forum. But U2girl, of all your hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of posts, this is by far the worst!!!!!!!

------------------
"You know, when we came through here on the Conspiracy of Hope tour, I could just feel something happening. People in offices, and factories, and schools, and artists, and everybody just kind of waking up or something. It was great. I remember, I think we did five dates, five or six dates. But I remember very much Chicago. One, because I think U2 played well that night, it was good. And the other because, you're so noisy. For the name of love!"

 

[Red Ships of Scalla-Festa]

very well put dieman and u2one. i agree with everything you said full-heartedly.

------------------
-deathbear

 

[Saracene]

Achtung Bubba,

I don't think that your Shakespeare example is really convincing. It would be suitable if we were discussing whether someone's five-year-old brother's musical composition is objectively better than U2's "With Or Without You". Of course WOWY is better, because there's no way a five-year-old kid could possess the professional know-how for writing and recording a song (in the same way that no five-year old would have enough knowledge of language to write anything resembling a masterpiece).

But, N-Sync are not five-year-old kids toying around on their dad's piano, they have a swarm of experienced professionals and grown-up music gurus working with them, their albums are as professionaly done as any other top-selling artist's. From this point of view, their music is done as well as U2's.

And anyway, I don't think that it's fair to criticise everything in terms of "bad art" or "good art". What if a movie or a musical artist have no intent whatsoever of making great art and just want to offer people fun, spectacle and escapism? For example, "Star Wars" is widely considered to be one of the greatest movies ever made, yet I don't think that it's anywhere near, say, "Godfather" in terms of dialogue, character development, acting and overall complexity. But that doesn't matter, because what it sets out to achieve, it achieves it absolutely brilliantly.

 

[Sicy]

LOL Bebe!

No its just you pump those monologue posts out pretty quick.

------------------
Fries, Fries, Fries

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Deathbear's Fly Girl:
LOL Bebe!

No its just you pump those monologue posts out pretty quick.

ah! understood. you mean replying. well, i just type away-i couldn't estimate the speed of it myself.



------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Diemen:
Um, actually no, I'm not convinced you were sure U2 was calling it quits. I just don't understand why you had to address the same topic when it was already argued to the fullest extent in the first one.

And that post wasn't revenge, it was simply frustration at this whole thread. You should know by now the responses you're going to get when you post something like this. What is the point? We understand your point that yeah, maybe we go a little overboard, but honestly, if you listened to N'Sync's music you'd realize that a lot of your points aren't valid because a)they don't even write their own songs, heck - they can't even CHOOSE their own songs - the bigwigs choose what songs are going to be on their album based on how well they will sell, simple as that. Second, the song topics are nothing new and aren't even original in the way they deal with it. Now, this music might be appealing to people who simply aren't in touch with deep emotion, but when this music starts winning awards left and right, it's a sign that something is seriously messed up with the music industry.

And that's really what I think the majority of us are mad about. We put a lot of the blame onto N'Sync because they are, let's face it, the spearhead and the stereotypical image of the boy band movement. Do you think that N'Sync is in control of their music? No. You think it was N'Sync's idea to borrow the "let's point out the rampant consumerism in society" idea? Yeah right. N'Sync has little if any artistic say in their music. Other people write, produce, play, plan and strategize their music, their image, and their tours. I find that repulsive.

Maybe the guys in N'Sync are pretty cool guys (but after watching Justin Timberlake blabber on and on at the VMA's acting like he thinks he's a comedian, I know he's not). I bet when they each auditioned for this, they wanted their shot at stardom, and I can't fault them for that - who wouldn't want a glimpse of stardom? But N'Sync the band is an affront to a music industry that used to honor hard work (and by hard work I don't mean practicing long hours on your dance routines) and slugging it out in the clubs and hitting the street to get the word out before you could get your taste of glory, rather than having so many corporate big-wigs throwing money around to win influence that your success is nothing more than a clear-cut formula in which you are generally not all that important.

So I think a lot of the stuff being said about N'Sync the group (rather than the indivduals within it) is deserved.

i remember when you were freaking out when i mentioned that Edge's comment and said that, they may not be around for ever. and you were pointing that out a while ago when you said "i was pessimistic about everything". you WERE referring to that, right?

a little overboard?!?
with things like: (from various anti-N'sync threads)
drawing pissing monkeys or bears in toilet over N'sync, saying members of the band take drugs, saying the members are jerks, saying how you wish they were dead (something people should never even joke about)?
but that's right, you were talking about the whole group and NOT about the individuals. (as if that would be any better)

i find it sad that music (any kind of it) can bring the worst out in some people. i just wish critics could be more civil, and more humane. come on, have a heart.

that was my point all along. you can't penpoint ONE group just because things are the way they are in the WHOLE INDUSTRY. yes, they stand out because they're big in US, but don't take it out on them if you're mad at music industry. take it to their management, take it to MTV-that makes more sense than blindly go "bazooka" out here.
------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat



[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-09-2001).]

 

[bonovista]

Okay, I do NOT have a problem with people liking N Sync..Different strokes for different folks..

My sons do love hearing their music and I really do not mind at all listening to them. Okay so they are not as good as U2, actually no one is..But if people want to listen to them..Let it be.

Paul said that he wanted a disclaimer on my post..So here it is..
He personally hates NSync..