Achtung over The Joshua Tree?

[Snowlock]

I wonder if the preference has to do with age? And I don't mean that as a older is wiser type debate... I just mean for the people who were there for the Joshua Tree and the movement in music it started and phenomenon that it was compared to AB. As great as AB is/was, it was totally dwarfed by Nevermind. When the Joshua Tree came out, it changed the music industry and burried everything else; especially new wave and bubblegum pop-rock. Even heavy metal changed drastically after the Joshua Tree.

With AB, it was U2 trying to harness someone else's engergy and convert it and bend it to their own will; much like Pop (NOT DISSING POP!) They took what was out there and crafted it into something new. With JT, it was new in and of itself.

Pitting favorites against favorites

WOWY > Ultraviolet
Streets > The Fly
One Tree Hill > Zoo Station
Red Hill Town > Myst Ways
RTSS > UTTEOTW
IGC > Acrobat
ISHFWILF > So Cruel
Exit < Love Is Blindness
Trip < EBTTRT
Bullet < One
Mothers < TTTYAATW

Massacre. Not a single top favorite from AB can compare to JT; and AB's top five lose by a wide margin each time.

 

[Snowlock]

People who like Streets - like The Joshua Tree and the 80's.

People who like One - like Achtung Baby and the 90's.

I Dunno... I like JT best, but otherwise will generally take the 90's over the 80's with a few exceptions - Specifically, Bad, Surrender, 2 Hearts, I Will Follow, All I Want Is You & Gloria.

 

[Snowlock]

AB is definitely more innovative - at least more innovative for a band like U2 to make. JT was somewhat different than what they had done before because it was the first time they played around with rootsy, American music, but in other respects it was more of an outgrowth and perfection of what they had been doing, particularly with UF. Achtung Baby was completely different than anything they had ever done before.

Good analysis, but I disagree a bit. I know it's well stated that had Bono gotten his way, JT would've been a very Americanized album. But don't believe he did get his way at all. I'm trying to place any song except RTSS musically in an American Genre. Can you place them? Sure, on Rattle And Hum it's pretty easy; but not the Joshua Tree. There's certainly no Mowtown/R&B, no Country except RTSS, no Dylan influences that I can detect. No American Folk, no blues, no jazz... And when I think of major American rock acts, like The Eagles, CCR, Boston, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bruce Springsteen, the Beach Boys, Bill Joel, Doors, Hendrix etc; I can't find any sonic links.

I Think of JT as a natural progression from UF; but it expanded into such a much bigger thing and took on an identity all its own. Like a small group of harmless clouds that hit a low pressure system and expand into a thunder storm

 

[Achtung Joshua!]

Pearl Jam's Ten is better than both so there
But seriously, it's true.

 

[Nube Gris]

The Joshua Tree is America

Achtung Baby is Europe

Two masterpieces written at another time, another place, about another continent
You can't compare them, just enjoy them...

 

[gareth brown]

People who like Streets - like The Joshua Tree and the 80's.

People who like One - like Achtung Baby and the 90's.

i actually like both.

 

[Irishteen]

If i wear to compare the albums it would be like this
Where The Streets Have No Name > Zoo Station
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For > Even Better Than The Real Thing
With or Without You < One
Bullet the Blue Sky < Until the End of the World
Running to Stand Still < Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses
Red Hill Mining Town > So Cruel
In God's Country < The Fly
Trip Through Your Wires > Mysterious Ways(Blame it on hearing MW live it ruined the studio one)
One Tree Hill > Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World
Exit = Ultra Violet (Light My Way)(Exit wins live)
Mothers of the Disappeared < Acrobat-Love is Blindness

TJT 5
AB 5

 

[Irishteen]

People who like Streets - like The Joshua Tree and the 80's.

People who like One - like Achtung Baby and the 90's.

We are never going to change people's minds because they are so stubborn.

One is my favourite song
Streets is number 2

But I prefer the 80's War-TUF-TJT the greatest 3 three albums made in a row

 

[TwoAmericas]

They are two different albums; heck they are two different bands, style-wise.

But they are both brilliant. AB is more pop-like. Every single one of the songs on AB could have been a Top 40 hit. The Joshua Tree is a lot more melancholy but truly brilliant musically.

 

[the tourist]

This isn't meant for anyone in particular -- I'm just quoting you because you're on the page.

With or Without You < One

The funniest part about all of the worship of One on interference is as follows: None of my friends who aren't U2 fans have even heard the song. When I ask them what they think of the song, I get blank stares. Then I am told that Sunday Bloody Sunday and Where The Streets Have No Name and With Or Without You are great songs. And no. I will not wear a tin hat. Throw rocks all you want. The fact remains the same.

 

[Bono's shades]

Good analysis, but I disagree a bit. I know it's well stated that had Bono gotten his way, JT would've been a very Americanized album. But don't believe he did get his way at all. I'm trying to place any song except RTSS musically in an American Genre. Can you place them? Sure, on Rattle And Hum it's pretty easy; but not the Joshua Tree. There's certainly no Mowtown/R&B, no Country except RTSS, no Dylan influences that I can detect. No American Folk, no blues, no jazz... And when I think of major American rock acts, like The Eagles, CCR, Boston, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bruce Springsteen, the Beach Boys, Bill Joel, Doors, Hendrix etc; I can't find any sonic links.

I Think of JT as a natural progression from UF; but it expanded into such a much bigger thing and took on an identity all its own. Like a small group of harmless clouds that hit a low pressure system and expand into a thunder storm

Actually, I agree. JT isn't that "Americanized" except for RTSS and Trip Through Your Wires (which is strongly influenced by country music - far more so than RTSS). That's why I chose the words "played around." It was simply an element that was at least somewhat present where it wasn't there at all before.

 

[phanan]

The Joshua Tree is one of the best albums ever made. Achtung Baby is one of U2's best. There is a difference.

I tend to think that both The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby are two of the best albums ever made, and I think that is the general feeling of many.

 

[ZeroDude]

I tend to think that both The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby are two of the best albums ever made, and I think that is the general feeling of many.

Amen

However if any one of these albums happened to have say Discotheque on them, then with the power of the "BOOM CHA" mankind would already have created hoverboards and skycars and everlasting cigarattes

 

[the tourist]

everlasting cigarattes

 

[Irishteen]

This isn't meant for anyone in particular -- I'm just quoting you because you're on the page.

The funniest part about all of the worship of One on interference is as follows: None of my friends who aren't U2 fans have even heard the song. When I ask them what they think of the song, I get blank stares. Then I am told that Sunday Bloody Sunday and Where The Streets Have No Name and With Or Without You are great songs. And no. I will not wear a tin hat. Throw rocks all you want. The fact remains the same.

Ye but if I asked my mates here would be a list

Boy- A small chance of Out Of Control(Was in very popular film intermission)
October- Gloria was filmed only a couple of hunread metres away but no chance of any songs
War- Slight chance of Sunday Bloody Sunday and New Years Day
TUF- Pride, Pride, and Pride
TJT- With or without you, I still haven't found and a slight chance of Streets
R&H- Desire, and a slight chance of All I want is you
AB- Slight chance of One
Zooropa- No chance
Pop- Sorry no chance
ATYCLB- Beautiful Day 100%, good chance of elevation and stuck and a slight chance of Walk On
HTDAAB- Vertigo 100%, good chance of Sometimes and City, and a slight chance of All because of you

 

[ZeroDude]

You'll see one day, one day

 

[bsp77]

This isn't meant for anyone in particular -- I'm just quoting you because you're on the page.




The funniest part about all of the worship of One on interference is as follows: None of my friends who aren't U2 fans have even heard the song. When I ask them what they think of the song, I get blank stares. Then I am told that Sunday Bloody Sunday and Where The Streets Have No Name and With Or Without You are great songs. And no. I will not wear a tin hat. Throw rocks all you want. The fact remains the same.

That is only because they don't recognize the name. If you actually played One for them they would recognize it. Same with Mysterious Ways.

The '80s songs you mentioned just have more obvious names.

 

[Snowlock]

Actually, I agree. JT isn't that "Americanized" except for RTSS and Trip Through Your Wires (which is strongly influenced by country music - far more so than RTSS). That's why I chose the words "played around." It was simply an element that was at least somewhat present where it wasn't there at all before.

Trip... Yeah, you're right. I always forget about that song.

 

[MumblingBono]

So, the argument is basically "epic" vs. "innovative".

I prefer AB.

 

[AtomicBono]

Amen

However if any one of these albums happened to have say Discotheque on them, then with the power of the "BOOM CHA" mankind would already have created hoverboards and skycars and everlasting cigarattes

AMEN BRUTHA!!!

Pop ownz your soulz.

 

[ZeroDude]

AMEN BRUTHA!!!

Pop ownz your soulz.

pOP PwNzoRs YuR SoUlZ

 

[LuvandPeace1980]

Achtung and POP ove JT

 

[Zoots]

That is only because they don't recognize the name. If you actually played One for them they would recognize it. Same with Mysterious Ways.

The '80s songs you mentioned just have more obvious names.

That is SO true. I once played 'One' to a friend of mine. He said he'd never heard it but recognized it instantly when the 'carry each other' part came on.

Look at the JT songs... where the streets have no name, I still haven't found, with or without you, bullet..... all those names are very prominent in the lyrics!

 

[Zoots]

PwNzoRs

What is that word????? I need to know right know!!!

 

[the tourist]

That is SO true. I once played 'One' to a friend of mine. He said he'd never heard it but recognized it instantly when the 'carry each other' part came on.

Look at the JT songs... where the streets have no name, I still haven't found, with or without you, bullet..... all those names are very prominent in the lyrics!

When I played One for a friend of mine who had never heard the song before, he didn't recognize it at all. Then he thought about it and said, "Wait, is that The Goo Goo Dolls?" and I said no. And then he said, "Oh, well nevermind."

 

[bsp77]

When I played One for a friend of mine who had never heard the song before, he didn't recognize it at all. Then he thought about it and said, "Wait, is that The Goo Goo Dolls?" and I said no. And then he said, "Oh, well nevermind."

Well, then you need new friends.

 

[Irishteen]

Did The Goo Goo Girls ever cover it (scary thought) because i have friends who think U2 stole All i Want Is you from Bellfire.

 

[gareth brown]

have them hung.

 

[God Part III]

Better musical structure? I don't understand.

I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For is just
A B A B A B all the way through.
Compare it to Until The End Of The World, it goes
A A solo B
The song doesn't even have a chorus. Think of Zoo Station and Mysterious Ways, in these songs the electric guitar is used for rhythms instead of melody.
I don't agree at all. Achtung Baby is a ground-breakingly amazing record.
So is Joshua Tree, but it's just not as good. And in terms of musical structure, not at all.

 

[gareth brown]

could you elaborate on these A's and B's, which bit is which?! I'm having a bit of trouble seeing what you mean, especially when UTEOTW seems to go A B A B as well...