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[bono_man2002]

Air Conditioning!!!, that does not exist in this house.

 

[major_panic]

42.

It's a great question, isn't it? Most Christians'd just say that the point of life is to serve God and to bring others to God; then you think "wait, if God made us, then why such a circuitous route?"

Sometimes I just reckon it's like this: God made us. Why? I don't know. He got bored or lonely. Lonely would be my best guess, although it's probably blasphemy to say so, and loneliness within a trinity's kinda weird. Let's say, then, He wanted something different.

After He made us, the fall from grace happened, and man had to be chucked out of Eden. (this is, of course, going along with classical Christianity's belief in Eden and all that) After that, God realised what His children had become, but was unwilling to terminate them, and respected their free will too much to just make them come to Him.

So, we get the Bible and what happened therein. A long story of man trying to find the "missing link within" which most define as God. Finally God gets tired of seeing man endlessly struggle to reach His level and sends His son down.

To cut a long story short, I think we were created for companionship with God, something went wrong, and now life consists of trying to get back there because God respects free will too much to interfere.

 

[major_panic]

Pentecostal, really? I must admit I'm surprised, as I wouldn't have guessed that. Everything I've seen about Pentecostal churches just sounds scary. All loud and dramatic, and although I don't want to paint with a broad brush, I've met a lot of Pentecostals with very questionable theology.

I honestly just expected you to be Anglican or Uniting or Baptist or something "regular Protestant" like that.

I, for the record, when I was a Christian generally considered myself an Anglican, though I had no strong denominational leanings.

I go to a church that's, really, Pentecostal in worship structure, but very strict Protestant (Baptist) with regards to theology. The reason I continue with my church is because the theology's more sound than any other church I've met so far.

Regular Pentecostal churches really worry me; have you met anyone from Planetshakers or Hillsong before? I shudder at the thought of them.

I'd say that Anglicans are pretty cool, even if their original church was just created as a means to control the country and the government and because their King was a spoilt brat at the time.

 

[major_panic]

Air Conditioning!!!, that does not exist in this house.

Hey! Didn't know you were here, how's it going?

 

[bono_man2002]

Hey! Didn't know you were here, how's it going?

I've been half lurking. I'm bloody hot, how are you?

 

[Axver]

Air Conditioning!!!, that does not exist in this house.

Nor mine. I'm glad about that, though. My power bill is bad enough as it is, especially as Ali refuses to give me free electricity.

 

[major_panic]

I've been half lurking. I'm bloody hot, how are you?

Bloody hot as well, and trying to get some old-school good music: Dark Side of the Moon, Forty Licks and Ziggy Stardust.

 

[bono_man2002]

Nor mine. I'm glad about that, though. My power bill is bad enough as it is, especially as Ali refuses to give me free electricity.

Its a bugger isn't it. How sleepable is your room?, Its usually not cool enough for me to sleep till like 1:30 most nights.....

I don't know about tonight though.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Sometimes I just reckon it's like this: God made us. Why? I don't know. He got bored or lonely. Lonely would be my best guess, although it's probably blasphemy to say so, and loneliness within a trinity's kinda weird. Let's say, then, He wanted something different.

This is sort of what I had thought of, when I was still a believer. But under more thought, it just didn't work for me. What company do we give Him? Those of us in Heaven? Why weren't people just born there instead?

I have the impression that, if there is a God or any sort of higher spirit that has human emotion or something comparing to, they are incredibly insecure and lonely. But if there is a god, or gods, or whatever, I don't think it would ever be for us to know how and why we are here, why the universe is here, and so forth.

We have organized religion to provide answers, but I found myself asking questions all the time before I decided to be agnostic. (Not to say that I didn't think I had faith, I had a lot of it and still have faith, but not in anything in particular).

Oh and it's still madly boiling here. I couldn't type at all for a while because my hands were too sweaty even when doing absolutely nothing.

 

[bono_man2002]

Bloody hot as well, and trying to get some old-school good music: Dark Side of the Moon, Forty Licks and Ziggy Stardust.

 

[major_panic]

This is sort of what I had thought of, when I was still a believer. But under more thought, it just didn't work for me. What company do we give Him? Those of us in Heaven? Why weren't people just born there instead?

I have no idea, to be honest - it's one of the mysteries of religion. Why the hell would any sort of deity want us anyway?

I guess it may be a bit like humans having pets to keep them company? And, of course, the Religious Trinity (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) explain people being born on Earth due to the fall and Eve's manipulation by Satan into eating from the Tree of Knowledge.

 

[major_panic]

Oh and it's still madly boiling here. I couldn't type at all for a while because my hands were too sweaty even when doing absolutely nothing.

The Australian has an article on its website about how SA has had something like 35 degree heat for over 5 consecutive days. I feel for y'all.

Man when I used to live in Asia, it was this hot, but it wasn't this hot, know what I'm saying?

 

[Axver]

42.

Touche!

(By the way, that's another Bad Christian point for you. Reading Douglas Adams, the great atheist? )

It's a great question, isn't it? Most Christians'd just say that the point of life is to serve God and to bring others to God; then you think "wait, if God made us, then why such a circuitous route?"

Yep. That's the usual bullshit answer I get from most Christians. I wonder if they've ever thought about how much of an egotistical wanker that makes God out to be. He made us just to serve him and promote his glory? Wow, how self-absorbed can you get?

Sometimes I just reckon it's like this: God made us. Why? I don't know. He got bored or lonely. Lonely would be my best guess, although it's probably blasphemy to say so, and loneliness within a trinity's kinda weird. Let's say, then, He wanted something different.

I find this an interesting argument in that it could be taken to imply a defect within God at some level, i.e. that God was not completely fulfilled, that God lacked something essential. Certainly it's a point that does not entirely fit with the traditional conceptualisation of God as a supremely perfect being in need of nothing.

After He made us, the fall from grace happened, and man had to be chucked out of Eden. (this is, of course, going along with classical Christianity's belief in Eden and all that) After that, God realised what His children had become, but was unwilling to terminate them, and respected their free will too much to just make them come to Him.

I should state that even as a Christian, I came to stop believing in the concept of sin. I think it is a very crude explanatory tool to understand human finitude. Within a Christian paradigm, I see the gulf between humanity and God not as that of sinners and sinless, but between finitude, with all of its mortality and defects, and infinitude.

All in all, I find your take to be well thought out, and much better than most stock Christian responses. I think I've already made it clear that I do not think all opinions were created equal and that some are blatantly ridiculous. I don't think yours is, despite the inclusion of a concept that I do find improbable, bordering on the ridiculous (that is the existence of a deity).

 

[The Sad Punk]

Yeah, but I never exactly subscribed to that story, unless metaphorically (which I took and still take most of the Old Testament as).

I know there's an answer, I'll never find it though.

 

[Alisaura]

Oooh, theology discussion!

 

[The Sad Punk]

The Australian has an article on its website about how SA has had something like 35 degree heat for over 5 consecutive days. I feel for y'all.

Man when I used to live in Asia, it was this hot, but it wasn't this hot, know what I'm saying?

It has actually been over 35 for maybe almost two weeks here. I think there might have been one 34 day. That's as low as it's gotten!

O Autumn! I pine for thee.

 

[Axver]

I go to a church that's, really, Pentecostal in worship structure, but very strict Protestant (Baptist) with regards to theology. The reason I continue with my church is because the theology's more sound than any other church I've met so far.

Regular Pentecostal churches really worry me; have you met anyone from Planetshakers or Hillsong before? I shudder at the thought of them.

I'd say that Anglicans are pretty cool, even if their original church was just created as a means to control the country and the government and because their King was a spoilt brat at the time.

Ahh, right. My sole experience offline with Pentecostals has been with the Hillsong types and their ilk. I feel bad saying this, as it's a rather harsh critique, but I have found their faith to be some of the most flaky, superficial, mindless religious belief I have ever encountered. Most of them have rubbed me the wrong way. And online, well, have you ever been to ChristianForums.com? Fuck, the crazies there ...!

Yeah, the Anglican church has one hell of a messed up history, and despite that, it's managed to turn out one of what I think is the "better" denominations.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Hi Ali, I saw you celebrating the birthday of Baron von Clayton over in Pleba. Thought you might have forgotten about us.

 

[Axver]

Its a bugger isn't it. How sleepable is your room?, Its usually not cool enough for me to sleep till like 1:30 most nights.....

I don't know about tonight though.

Actually, my room is fantastic! I'm not sure if you've ever really looked in there, but you might've noticed it gets NO SUNLIGHT AT ALL. It's the one room of the house that's completely blocked off by the rest of the block of flats, so it's extremely cool during the day, and quite comfortable at night. Thank fuck for that.

Makes a pleasant change from my bedrooms of the previous few years that got all of the morning sun and pissed me right off! This one actually should get the morning sun too, if the other wing of the block weren't in the way.

 

[Alisaura]

A girl's gotta have her priorities, Bonnie

By the way... LOVE the avatar and location...

I can't stop long... assuming I can sleep tonight, I want to get a lot of it ...

Hi everyone

 

[Axver]

Hi Ali, I saw you celebrating the birthday of Baron von Clayton over in Pleba. Thought you might have forgotten about us.

Oh yeah, it's Adam's birthday isn't it? I hope he got a voucher for bass lessons or something.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Yeah, the Anglican church has one hell of a messed up history, and despite that, it's managed to turn out one of what I think is the "better" denominations.

This is true, there were basically no crazies whatsoever in my Anglican church. We did not separate ourselves so much from the Catholics, unlike other churches in the area. I have also mentioned before that our (I say 'our' and 'we' for the sake of family and that I still in some way connect to the church) last two priests were well versed in history and theology. Sermons were more than just half hour metaphors about being a seed in the dirt of Christ, or whatever shit they'd talk about at AOG churches.

 

[major_panic]

Yep. That's the usual bullshit answer I get from most Christians. I wonder if they've ever thought about how much of an egotistical wanker that makes God out to be. He made us just to serve him and promote his glory? Wow, how self-absorbed can you get?

Sometimes I wonder if there's a Bad Theology 101 class out there that a lot of Christians know about that I don't. That kind of stock answer just gets ridiculed by anyone with half a brain.

I find this an interesting argument in that it could be taken to imply a defect within God at some level, i.e. that God was not completely fulfilled, that God lacked something essential. Certainly it's a point that does not entirely fit with the traditional conceptualisation of God as a supremely perfect being in need of nothing.

It is, and I'm still chewing on that. Is God, or can God be, fallible? It's not unreasonable to consider so, but it's probably heresy in most parts.

I should state that even as a Christian, I came to stop believing in the concept of sin. I think it is a very crude explanatory tool to understand human finitude. Within a Christian paradigm, I see the gulf between humanity and God not as that of sinners and sinless, but between finitude, with all of its mortality and defects, and infinitude.

I used the word because it was the only one I could think of to express what I meant (I explained that bit from the more conventional Christian viewpoint). I agree with you entirely - it's none of that "sin" rubbish, just the fact that human nature at its core, has an element of corruption, evil, baseness, whatever you want to call it, and God's nature doesn't, or shouldn't. Basically, God is God, and we're human. We're screwed.

All in all, I find your take to be well thought out, and much better than most stock Christian responses. I think I've already made it clear that I do not think all opinions were created equal and that some are blatantly ridiculous. I don't think yours is, despite the inclusion of a concept that I do find improbable, bordering on the ridiculous (that is the existence of a deity).

Thanks!

The belief in a deity, I've found, is highly subjective in most people depending on circumstance, upbringing, culture etc. Some people are just conditioned to accept it, others aren't. Whatever it is, people find a way to fill the gap within them that asks "why?". Whether or not theirs is the right answer, well, who knows?

 

[Axver]

It has actually been over 35 for maybe almost two weeks here. I think there might have been one 34 day. That's as low as it's gotten!

O Autumn! I pine for thee.

How are you coping? I'm dying here and it's not as bad as over your way! I read somewhere, I think on The Age's website, that you lot are going to be in for 16 consecutive days over 35 or something utterly mad like that.

OH FUCK. Just checked tomorrow's Melbourne forecast. FORTY DEGREES. But there's some hope for Victoria, as here's the forecast for the subsequent days: 30, 36, 36, 36, 30, 21. BRING ON THURSDAY NEXT WEEK!

 

[The Sad Punk]

By the way... LOVE the avatar and location...

Yes, I'm rather happy with it.

By the way, Ali - if you're capable, you wouldn't mind helping a sister out here?

 

[major_panic]

Yeah, but I never exactly subscribed to that story, unless metaphorically (which I took and still take most of the Old Testament as).

I know there's an answer, I'll never find it though.

I personally view the Old Testament as Israel's way of dealing with the great questions that they have, answering why it is their society runs the way it does and a means of control over the population. God does shine through in it sometimes, but a lot of the time you have to wade through a lot of humanity for it.

And, don't give up! The quest for an answer is, I believe, one of the best to be on in life, even if it may go unfinished! [/naivete]

 

[The Sad Punk]

Axxo, you know that prediction is going to be a fuck up. How could it not be?

 

[Axver]

Oooh, theology discussion!

Hey Ali!

This thread has everything.

 

[Axver]

Axxo, you know that prediction is going to be a fuck up. How could it not be?

Saddo, this is Melbourne. Earlier this year, we quite seriously had a run of 22, 28, 41, 40, 21. I remember one day, it dropped twelve degrees in half an hour. At lunchtime, I was too hot to make sandwiches; at dinner time, I had to close the kitchen window because it was too cold.

 

[major_panic]

Ahh, right. My sole experience offline with Pentecostals has been with the Hillsong types and their ilk. I feel bad saying this, as it's a rather harsh critique, but I have found their faith to be some of the most flaky, superficial, mindless religious belief I have ever encountered. Most of them have rubbed me the wrong way. And online, well, have you ever been to ChristianForums.com? Fuck, the crazies there ...!

Yeah, the Anglican church has one hell of a messed up history, and despite that, it's managed to turn out one of what I think is the "better" denominations.

Hillsong flaky's too kind a word to describe them. I'm one of the few in my church who dare to call Hillsong out for what it is - a money-making enterprise that is Christian almost by accident.

The history of the Anglican church is one of my favourite histories, right up there with Constantine and Christianity's going from a cult to a state-dominated religion!