The Joker

[waynetravis]

This site has a little video of Ledger preparing for a scene:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/p...ale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

 

[lazarus]

A couple things: I strangely like Batman Returns a lot, despite the fact that I hate Michael Keaton in both films, and most of Tim Burton's films as well. Maybe it's the pathos of the two villains and how well they're played. I don't know. But I think it was a huge improvement over the first film, one of Burton's best 2-3 films, and right up there with Batman Begins.

No, I will never pass up a chance to bash Schindler's List, though I don't think Scorsese would have done better with the material. His obsession with Catholic guilt may have resulted in an equally bad Schindler breakdown.

As for Gangs of New York, while it certainly isn't focused as well as Scorsese's other great films, it has more ambition than almost everything Spielberg's ever done. When you aim higher, as with something like Apocalypse Now, you're bound to wind up with something messy. But there is so much brilliance to be found in that film. So much information about the world it's set in without getting bogged down too much in explaining everything. The fight scene at the beginning is up there with any set piece I've ever scene, with some great nods to various directors (including Orson Welles' revolutionary battle in Chimes at Midnight), and the the climactic showdown is appropriately anti-climactic considering the history that is happening all around it.

Future generations will look back on this as one of the decade's best films.

 

[LMP]

Returns certainly doesn't have the re-watchability of Batman '89, but is trying to be something different, mainly aesthetically, Burton's specialty. It's more of a Burton film than a Batman film, which is why it had such a huge backlash.

I do agree with Laz that it is in Burton's Top 3, up there with Edward Scissorhands and Ed Wood.

 

[pepokiss]

the Catwoman story is great... but the falling form the building and surviving part really is TOO much



Rocket penguis rules!!!!

 

[LMP]

Hmm, I always thought she was dead and was revived by the cats. It fits into the whole '9 lives' aspect of the story, at least for me.

 

[WinnieThePoo]

i hope she survived that last blast



and that last scene , wrong umbrella , brilliant

 

[No spoken words]

As for Gangs of New York, while it certainly isn't focused as well as Scorsese's other great films, it has more ambition than almost everything Spielberg's ever done. When you aim higher, as with something like Apocalypse Now, you're bound to wind up with something messy. But there is so much brilliance to be found in that film. So much information about the world it's set in without getting bogged down too much in explaining everything. The fight scene at the beginning is up there with any set piece I've ever scene, with some great nods to various directors (including Orson Welles' revolutionary battle in Chimes at Midnight), and the the climactic showdown is appropriately anti-climactic considering the history that is happening all around it.

I do not see eye to eye with Lazarus on everything, but, I whole heartedly agree with this. I love this film, and as much of a mess as it can be at times (Apparently, the Weinsteins messed with a lot of it), it's still a great film, in my opinion. Lewis' performance is riveting; you cannot take your eyes off of him. I love this movie and rewatch it every year or so, and always will.

 

[lazarus]

I do not see eye to eye with Lazarus on everything, but, I whole heartedly agree with this. I love this film, and as much of a mess as it can be at times (Apparently, the Weinsteins messed with a lot of it), it's still a great film, in my opinion. Lewis' performance is riveting; you cannot take your eyes off of him. I love this movie and rewatch it every year or so, and always will.

Which brings up a good point; I wonder how many people bothered to see it more than once. It's a really, really dense film, and impossible to absorb completely on one viewing. While the scenes that don't fully work don't necessarily get any better (like the last one), I think there are many little things that you catch on subsequent experiences.

It only takes the first, however, to recognize the supreme glory of Daniel Day-Lewis' work, which I think is in the top 5 screen perfs of all time.

Despite the liberties taken with some of the timelines (the real Bill the Butcher was dead long before the draft riots), you could show this as a teaching aid to students, who I think would be a lot more enthusiastic about this period in American History.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Hmm, I always thought she was dead and was revived by the cats. It fits into the whole '9 lives' aspect of the story, at least for me.

She was revived.

I love Batman Returns, it's the best out of the first batch of Batman films, IMO. And yes, the Catwoman story is a huge part of that for me, but I love Burton so that factors in as well.

Winnie, the last scene suggests that she did

 

[LMP]

I loved seeing Pee-Wee and Simone from Pee-Wee's Big Adventure as the Penguin's parents at the very beginning of the film. A great nod to fans on Burton's part.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

I loved seeing Pee-Wee and Simone from Pee-Wee's Big Adventure as the Penguin's parents at the very beginning of the film. A great nod to fans on Burton's part.

I love so many things about that film. I should watch it right now.

Selena's transformation scene is fucking awesome.

 

[LMP]

Most def.

I love how she randomly backflips out of the alley after she beats the shit out of the mugger.

And Michael Keaton's still Batman, guys. That's cause enough to celebrate. It was a full 3 years until Iceman *bite* was a stiff Batman.

 

[No spoken words]

Which brings up a good point; I wonder how many people bothered to see it more than once. It's a really, really dense film, and impossible to absorb completely on one viewing. While the scenes that don't fully work don't necessarily get any better (like the last one), I think there are many little things that you catch on subsequent experiences.

It only takes the first, however, to recognize the supreme glory of Daniel Day-Lewis' work, which I think is in the top 5 screen perfs of all time.

Despite the liberties taken with some of the timelines (the real Bill the Butcher was dead long before the draft riots), you could show this as a teaching aid to students, who I think would be a lot more enthusiastic about this period in American History.

I think I read that the scenes towards the end are where the Weinsteins butted in the most. The radio voice over, especially, was done at their insistence.

And, yes, I definitely caught things the 2nd time around, or 3rd, that I did not pay heed to initially.

I'm admit that I'm biased, though, I'm a pretty huge Scorcese fan.

Lazarus, out of curiosity, which 4 performances would you say round out your Top 5? I agree that Day-Lewis' work belongs on that list, would love to hear your others.

I like Batman Returns, but, not as much as you guys seem to. I like Batman Begins best of all Batman films, there is not even a close 2nd for me. Very high hopes for Dark Knight.

 

[Lancemc]

Two things:

That video Wayne posted is awesome. Ledger's Joker is going to be fantastic.

And secondly, Gangs of New York was a mess. But I really do love it anyway. It's a shame Scorsese doesn't do director's cuts, because that one film that really could benefit from one (and maybe digitally replace Cameron Diaz with...well, anything would be an improvement). It's totally Daniel Day-Lewis that keep me coming back to the film though. He chews scenery like its bubblegum, and completely dominated every frame he's in. I'd glady watch a 10-hour version of that film just to see more Bill The Butcher, he's simply that amazing.

 

[U2MaNaIcWeIdO]

This site has a little video of Ledger preparing for a scene:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/p...ale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

I local news sometimes

 

[lazarus]

Lazarus, out of curiosity, which 4 performances would you say round out your Top 5? I agree that Day-Lewis' work belongs on that list, would love to hear your others.

#1 is Marlon Brando in Last Tango in Paris. No other actor has bared their soul or gone deeper than Brando did for this role. He said that this experience was so traumatizing he would never go that far again for a film. There's a monologue he has while sitting next to his wife's body (she has commited suicide before the film begins) that is so real it is painful to watch. No one, I repeat NO ONE, will ever approach this level of film acting with the natural gifts that Brando possessed.

After that, it's a bit hazy. My favorite female performance is Juliette Binoche in Three Colors: Blue. I've seen interviews with her, and for some reason, she is able to turn her emotions on and off like a faucet. She's a raw nerve in this film, and watching her progress from tragedy to the "liberty" that is the underlying theme of the film is magical.

Also up there is Cate Blanchett in Heaven, which was co-written by Krystof Kieslowski, who was the guy behind the above film. Yeah, she shaved her head for this film, but there's more than that. There is a scene where she learns what really happened when a bomb went off, and I defy anyone to point out better acting than what Blanchett does here. A fearless performance. Seek this out if you haven't seen it.

The remainer of my top 5 consists of Daniel Day-Lewis in Gangs, and probably De Niro in Raging Bull. I don't think there's much I need to say about the former save for the fact that while he's playing a totally iconic, over-the-top character, he never fails to make Bill the Butcher totally human and believable. Look at the little expressions, the gestures. This is NOT a caricature. It's a rare gift to be broad and minimal at the same time.

De Niro, hard to summarize this one. It's not difficult to play someone who's totally unlikeable. But to make him this fascinating, this original...that comes along once in a blue moon. There are so many times in Raging Bull that you want to look away because what is on the screen is something you just don't want to be witness to. That De Niro was willing to go there with Scorsese and give himself over completely to the material is a rarity. Forget the extreme weight gain; the guy who was training De Niro for the boxing scenes said that had he fought competitively he probably would have been a legitimate and well-ranked professional fighter. Wow.

 

[pepokiss]

this has nothing to do with the thread, but your Gangs of New York discussion neither... so...




join me in a big NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


from 411mania.com

[Movies] Katie Holmes as Wonder Woman?
Posted by Ashish on 08.17.2007

Could happen...

The latest rumor making the rounds regarding Wonder Woman is that Katie Holmes could star in the film.

Not much else is known about the film. Producer Joel Silver admitted in March that he is having trouble getting the project off the ground. Joss Whedon was set to direct but ended up dropping out.

Many other big name actresses have been rumored for the lead role in the film including Sandra Bullock, Eliza Dushku, Charisma Carpenter, and Minnie Driver.

Credit: IGN.com

please no

Sandra Bullock FTW

Eliza Dushku

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

this has nothing to do with the thread, but your Gangs of New York discussion neither... so...




join me in a big NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


from 411mania.com








please no

Sandra Bullock FTW

Eliza Dushku

I'll personally fly to Hollywood and rip that casting director's eyes out if that ever happens.

They've been trying to get a WW movie made for years. I think casting an unknown is the best route.

[/getsoffherWWsoapbox]

 

[LMP]

I'll personally fly to Hollywood and rip that casting director's eyes out if that ever happens.

They've been trying to get a WW movie made for years. I think casting an unknown is the best route.

[/getsoffherWWsoapbox]

The best thing they could do is let Joss Whedon take control and cast Morena Baccarin (Inara from Firefly.)

 

[Utoo]

^That'd turn out pretty well. Joss Whedon's done some great comic book stuff recently, and there'd be some pretty big excitement if he took the helm of a comic book film potentially as big as WW.

I'd love to see Robin done well in the Batman Begins world. Have him be a young teen, just as he is in the comics....no 20-something Chris O'Donnell (who, if given the right lines, might still make a good Nightwing...). Batman's relationship with Robin is pretty much where his humanism comes out.

 

[Utoo]

To enter some of the debate from a day or two ago...

I'm a Batman reader. I don't mind terribly that the Joker wears makeup, at least at first. It does make him a bit more eerily twisted that he decides to dress as a clown, etc. I do, however, think that at some point in the film, it should become a permanent look..kind of like Nicholson's transformation in the first movie. There's something inherent in the character that is so twisted, so evil, and this naturalness is reflected in his natural look. But, in the face of realism, I do see how such a look would 1) need a lot of suspension of disbelief, and 2) perhaps not play off as twistedly, eerily sadistic as some dude who paints himself a clown when he kills. I do, however, wonder that if we're banking on this second point as a reason to agree with the decision for a make-up-faced Joker, what then makes this character any different or more twisted than the way the Scarecrow was portrayed in BB? Just another sick guy who's even sicker because he puts on some sort of mask before he strikes.

The thing I don't really agree with is the radically different BatCave. I haven't read many spoiler sites...I've mainly been following this on here, so I don't know if this 'cave' really is under a new mid-city penthouse and that's from a spoiler site, or if we're just assuming. Personally, I think those shots look like they could just as easily be the (improved-for-sequel) lab that Morgan Freeman's character had. If not, if it really is a Bat Cave with fluorescent lights and a Wall Street address....I have to say that's pretty lame. There can just as easily be realism in an underground, dark, damp headquarters. Let's not forget----Batman's supposed to be a pretty dark character, too...not just the Joker & other villains. That's why Batman's the badass vigilante hero (albeit, with a sweet side ) that Superman can never be, thus making their relationship in comics so interesting. Having an office-like Bat Cave makes this Batman seem so much more like the schmoozing George Clooney version than the grim, dark Christian Bale version we've come to love.

But, of course, we'll have to wait and see the movie. And I'm sure I'll love it.

 

[trevster2k]

I think Slapnutz is right on the mark regarding the inspiration of the comics, Batman 1 and 2, I just reread them and that is probably what is going to happen in the movie.

Some are suggesting their isn't going to be a "batcave" at all but we shall see.

I would love to see a World's Finest movie done properly someday with the world's biggest boy scout and the dark detective. I enjoyed those fan films put out a few years ago.

 

[LMP]

I never thought the pictures above showed the Batcave, the end of Begins even hinted at Bruce and Alfred re-building Wayne Manor with a special place for the Batcave.

Now, when this movie starts, will the rebuilding of Wayne Manor be done? That remains to be seen.

 

[lazarus]

It would be nice if the house isn't finished until the third film. Will give the whole series a much more epic quality.

And on that note, one of the biggest things that bugged me about the original Burton Batman is that they created and killed The Joker all in one film. Like the guy only existed for like 2 weeks. The next film did it again with Penguin AND Catwoman. Same thing with each of the Spider-Man films and his archenemies. Does that piss anyone else off? What was good about Superman (even the new ones) is that Luthor escaped to fight another day, although I don't much care for Hackman or Spacey's characterizations.

I'm hoping The Joker gets away at the end of Dark Knight (a la Empire Strikes Back), because a final showdown in the third film would have so much more weight to it, instead of having to do the same thing all over again with a different character. I liked how he was hinted at in the final scene of Begins, but they saved him for part 2.

 

[LMP]

That's a good point, and I'm pretty positive they'll save Two-Face for the 3rd movie. A 2-villain movie could work if they fit well into the story, Batman Returns might be the only 2-villain movie to really work, not even too well.

 

[waynetravis]

I was thinking, even before watching Begins lastnight, that Gorden shows the Joker cards to Batman there, so Joker is already established on the streets before the sequel.
Maybe Dark Knight will have a backstory showing how he becomes Joker like they did for Batman.

Or I also thought, as some have mentioned about a crazy man in facepaint, maybe he is a crazy facepaint wearing guy AND then as the accicent that scars him to become full Joker.

I've never read the comics so I don't realy know who or what the guy did before he became Joker.
I'm just speculating on what I see in these pictures and the premise of Batman Begins

 

[LMP]

Yeah, I never understood why people are immediately assuming he's in makeup the whole time or not. Little is really known about this film except some general outlines, but that's good. Who wants to be spoiled this early?

 

[Lancemc]

All I'm going to do is repeat my hope that he really does just use make-up the entire time, though I do believe the suspicions of seeing a vat-of-chemicals style accident occuring into the film are very likely.

 

[No spoken words]

#1 is Marlon Brando in Last Tango in Paris. No other actor has bared their soul or gone deeper than Brando did for this role. He said that this experience was so traumatizing he would never go that far again for a film. There's a monologue he has while sitting next to his wife's body (she has commited suicide before the film begins) that is so real it is painful to watch. No one, I repeat NO ONE, will ever approach this level of film acting with the natural gifts that Brando possessed.

After that, it's a bit hazy. My favorite female performance is Juliette Binoche in Three Colors: Blue. I've seen interviews with her, and for some reason, she is able to turn her emotions on and off like a faucet. She's a raw nerve in this film, and watching her progress from tragedy to the "liberty" that is the underlying theme of the film is magical.

Also up there is Cate Blanchett in Heaven, which was co-written by Krystof Kieslowski, who was the guy behind the above film. Yeah, she shaved her head for this film, but there's more than that. There is a scene where she learns what really happened when a bomb went off, and I defy anyone to point out better acting than what Blanchett does here. A fearless performance. Seek this out if you haven't seen it.

The remainer of my top 5 consists of Daniel Day-Lewis in Gangs, and probably De Niro in Raging Bull. I don't think there's much I need to say about the former save for the fact that while he's playing a totally iconic, over-the-top character, he never fails to make Bill the Butcher totally human and believable. Look at the little expressions, the gestures. This is NOT a caricature. It's a rare gift to be broad and minimal at the same time.

De Niro, hard to summarize this one. It's not difficult to play someone who's totally unlikeable. But to make him this fascinating, this original...that comes along once in a blue moon. There are so many times in Raging Bull that you want to look away because what is on the screen is something you just don't want to be witness to. That De Niro was willing to go there with Scorsese and give himself over completely to the material is a rarity. Forget the extreme weight gain; the guy who was training De Niro for the boxing scenes said that had he fought competitively he probably would have been a legitimate and well-ranked professional fighter. Wow.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate you taking the time to compose it. I'll have to see Three Colors: Blue.

 

[U2Girl416]

well I didn't have any actor sightings last night when I was downtown , but I did see signs to one of the sets, which appeared to be in an alley, and one restaurant we walked by had a sign that stated the a film was being made in the main dining room, but patrons were still welcome upstairs. anyway, there were several Gotham police cars and a correction facility bus that I took some pics of.