cobl04
45:33
I’ve said Bryan Adams > Ryan Adams for years and I’m very happy to be proven correct.
This does not make that true.
not quite sure how "bryan adams is not a rapey creep" doesn't automatically make him better than rapey creep ryan adams, but okay.This does not make that true.
So Ringo Starr > John Lennon because he didn't physically and emotionally abuse his wife? Good to know.
I’ve said Bryan Adams > Ryan Adams for years and I’m very happy to be proven correct.
This does not make that true.
not quite sure how "bryan adams is not a rapey creep" doesn't automatically make him better than rapey creep ryan adams, but okay.
So Ringo Starr > John Lennon because he didn't physically and emotionally abuse his wife? Good to know.
I don’t think everyone is referring to the same thing here, as to whether someone is a better artist or a better person.
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this forum is so utterly stupid
huh, i guess i just don't understand why there would be any impulse to argue for the quality of his music literally the day after he's accused of this kind of stuff but i suppose there were also lots of people defending chris brown's music on the day the photo of rihanna came out.
Still won't watch his stuff. May never again. Can't separate it.I have a tough time with this. For example, I still watch and enjoy movies with Kevin Spacey in it. But at the same time, I think he’s probably a piece of shit in real life. I think you can separate the art from the person while fully acknowledging that what they’ve done is wrong and that you don’t agree with it.
ehh fair enough. just getting sick of people bringing an artist's quality of music into the discussion immediately after they get accused of doing something horrible.
ehh fair enough. just getting sick of people bringing an artist's quality of music into the discussion immediately after they get accused of doing something horrible. the same thing happened with XXXtentacion last year before and after his death, it's happening right now with r kelly (and has been for decades), it happened with michael jackson ("that n- gave us billie jean, you say he touched them kids?"). and of course there's the inevitable "bUt JoHn LeNnOn" too. it's fucking tiresome.
i will freely admit that i had very little respect for ryan adams to begin with, considering the big break of his career more or less came from profiting off 9/11 immediately after it happened. regardless, bryan adams has always been better than ryan adams (shitty movie soundtrack songs notwithstanding). i would say show me a ryan adams song that kicks ass like "run to you" does, but i refuse to listen to any ryan adams songs and thus have him profit off me.
I hear you man. But I don't think Ashley or anyone else was being defensive or anything. And I think the art from artist discussion is a really pertinent one. Because I think it affects EVERY artist. U2 release God Part II as a lead single in 2019 and they'd be 'cancelled' forever for the rape lyric. I don't reckon there'd be a single artist alive who hasn't done something shitty at one point, because we're all human. And it's why I really dislike this black-and-white 'X is cancelled' thing, because it immediately removed all nuance, possibility for growth and real social and cultural change. If we cancelled everyone who'd done something shitty, I genuinely don't think we'd have any artists left.
I think Mortal Man, which you just referred to, is actually a really good touch point for this whole debate/discussion. Kendrick and Kanye also touch upon (as I'm sure you're aware of) the longstanding cultural issue of black men being guilty until proven innocent, although neither really picked their targets very well (MJ, Cosby). But I think "when shit hits the fan is you still a fan?" is a good intellectual starting point for this debate. I don't believe people should feel guilty for still playing and enjoying MJ's many hits. Shit, I still believe Ignition Remix is one of the best songs ever, even though R Kelly is obviously a gigantic shitstain.
tl;dr Life is complicated and I like these discussions. And Bryan Adams has always been better, I agree. Very few artists have made sappy, saccharine, stadium-level pop-rock as enjoyable as Bryan Adams. Not gonna sit here and claim he's some super talented dude that deserves a place in the upper echelon cos that ain't true, but he's made a LOT of hugely enjoyable dumb pop rock ballads that I'll bop to until the day I die.
i guess for me the difference is knowing that by me choosing to listen to an r. kelly song, i'm financially sponsoring (even if it is only $0.0001 for a stream on spotify or whatever) a man who has caused and is actively causing so much suffering to women literally as we speak.
In regards to the Ryan Adams/shitty famous people discussion, I thought this piece in The Guardian was interesting, and made some very important points about how and why men are able to get away with so much shit in this industry:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...ceberg?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
it's kinda like the difference in how i would feel if i were to watch an episode of louie vs watching the cosby show. it's hard to find that arbitrary, subjective line where it goes from "this artist is a shitty person but i can get past it" to "this artist is a *really* shitty person and i can't support them".
I really dislike this black-and-white 'X is cancelled' thing, because it immediately removed all nuance, possibility for growth and real social and cultural change. If we cancelled everyone who'd done something shitty, I genuinely don't think we'd have any artists left.
This is such an enormous point. For me, this came up because I attended the University of Oklahoma. One of our football players, Joe Mixon, was in an altercation with a woman in a restaurant. She and another person were calling him the N word, and he forcefully slammed her into a table, leaving her injured. There were repercussions with him missing games (a whole season, I think), but in the end, he and the woman were able to talk and make peace. Despite that, the incident will follow him, and even my own sister insists that there's nothing Mixon could ever do to make up for it.
I hear you man. But I don't think Ashley or anyone else was being defensive or anything. And I think the art from artist discussion is a really pertinent one. Because I think it affects EVERY artist. U2 release God Part II as a lead single in 2019 and they'd be 'cancelled' forever for the rape lyric. I don't reckon there'd be a single artist alive who hasn't done something shitty at one point, because we're all human. And it's why I really dislike this black-and-white 'X is cancelled' thing, because it immediately removed all nuance, possibility for growth and real social and cultural change. If we cancelled everyone who'd done something shitty, I genuinely don't think we'd have any artists left.
I think Mortal Man, which you just referred to, is actually a really good touch point for this whole debate/discussion. Kendrick and Kanye also touch upon (as I'm sure you're aware of) the longstanding cultural issue of black men being guilty until proven innocent, although neither really picked their targets very well (MJ, Cosby). But I think "when shit hits the fan is you still a fan?" is a good intellectual starting point for this debate. I don't believe people should feel guilty for still playing and enjoying MJ's many hits. Shit, I still believe Ignition Remix is one of the best songs ever, even though R Kelly is obviously a gigantic shitstain.
by no means was i saying that everyone needs to "cancel" ryan adams or anything. if you wanna do that, or you want to keep listening to his music, that's on you. it's easy for me to never listen to his songs again because i think i've heard maybe 3 or 4 of them ever and didn't particularly like what i heard, so it's not like he's in playlists i listen to or something. i'd be a hypocrite if i judged people for still listening to him because after all, i still listen to and enjoy led zeppelin, david bowie, eric clapton, MJ, etc. who have each all done some truly awful shit too.
i guess for me the difference is knowing that by me choosing to listen to an r. kelly song, i'm financially sponsoring (even if it is only $0.0001 for a stream on spotify or whatever) a man who has caused and is actively causing so much suffering to women literally as we speak. i have a hard time really enjoying ignition these days, which is a shame because the song is a fucking banger and it's one of those that will always resonate with me in a way by virtue of being the soundtrack to so many of my high school memories. but in the past (like mid-00s) even when i did know a bit of what r. kelly was up to, i'll freely admit that i wouldn't even give it a second thought if i was in a club and ignition started playing.
it's kinda like the difference in how i would feel if i were to watch an episode of louie vs watching the cosby show. it's hard to find that arbitrary, subjective line where it goes from "this artist is a shitty person but i can get past it" to "this artist is a *really* shitty person and i can't support them".
I just wish Louis CK had fucking manned up and addressed his shit properly, but now he's just doubling down and whinging and it's really pathetic.