DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
yeah, i said it. whatcha gonna do about it?
peyton manning > tom brady
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shhh... peyton manning is over-rated. the fact that he's gonna break dan marino's single season touchdown record is not important. please concentrate on his annoying father and funny accent. thank you.
popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
two super bowl mvp's.
how many does peyton have?
whats peytons winning percentage vs tom's?
you take your stats, i'll take the wins.
how many does peyton have?
whats peytons winning percentage vs tom's?
you take your stats, i'll take the wins.
MissVelvetDress_75
Blue Crack Addict
I don't ever want to have another dream about Peyton.
RademR
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Tom Brady in a hearbeat. Brady has two superbowls, and Peyton has one career playoff win.
The Colts dont have a defense, but Peyton has Marvin Harrison, who even though he's known as one of the best WRs in the game, you can still say hes one of the most under-rated. He's absolutely incredible, he just doesnt bring the media blitz because hes doesnt attract attention like randy and TO. Brady has a bunch of good receivers and no stars, the closest has been Troy Brown. Exactly.
Then theres a RB who takes the biggest pressure of your QB with the play action fake, which Peyton basis his whole game on. Edgerrin James is an incredible back, all-pro, while Brady had Antwoin Smith/Kevin Faulk all those years when they won (not counting Dillon this year).
Both offensive lines are very solid but not up there with the league's best (chiefs, steelers, etc.) Anyway, head to head Brady is undefeated, so it's all about Tom Brady in this matchup.
The Colts dont have a defense, but Peyton has Marvin Harrison, who even though he's known as one of the best WRs in the game, you can still say hes one of the most under-rated. He's absolutely incredible, he just doesnt bring the media blitz because hes doesnt attract attention like randy and TO. Brady has a bunch of good receivers and no stars, the closest has been Troy Brown. Exactly.
Then theres a RB who takes the biggest pressure of your QB with the play action fake, which Peyton basis his whole game on. Edgerrin James is an incredible back, all-pro, while Brady had Antwoin Smith/Kevin Faulk all those years when they won (not counting Dillon this year).
Both offensive lines are very solid but not up there with the league's best (chiefs, steelers, etc.) Anyway, head to head Brady is undefeated, so it's all about Tom Brady in this matchup.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
The Colts won 2 games in last years' playoffs alone...vs. Denver and KC.
Anyway, Headache mentioning Marino is apropos as Manning will likely not win any titles, and Brady can be compared to Joe Montana, who won 4 Superbowls...Brady has a shot to match that.
So the historical question begs...who would you rather have...Joe Montana or Dan Marino? For me its a no brainer...Montana.
Fast forward to 2004 and ask me do I want Manning and his wonderful stats and zero titles or the "mediocre" Brady and his 2 titles and counting...give me Brady any day.
Anyway, Headache mentioning Marino is apropos as Manning will likely not win any titles, and Brady can be compared to Joe Montana, who won 4 Superbowls...Brady has a shot to match that.
So the historical question begs...who would you rather have...Joe Montana or Dan Marino? For me its a no brainer...Montana.
Fast forward to 2004 and ask me do I want Manning and his wonderful stats and zero titles or the "mediocre" Brady and his 2 titles and counting...give me Brady any day.
the marino vs. montana / manning vs. brady compraison is fair... montana played on much better teams than marino, was very efficient and made a minimal number of mistakes, partly because of him, partly because of the offense the 9ers ran... marino put up sheer numbers, yet the dolphins historicly were a flawed team, never being able to put together a team complete enough to get marino back to the super bowl, thus putting more pressure on marino to be even greater than great, put the team on his shoulders and take them to the promised land... which he couldn't do, because frankly... even great players need help.
substitute brady for montana and manning for marino in that paragraph, and it fits to a T. the only difference is what held marino and manning back... marino never had a quality running game... manning has a running game, and if you look at the stats the run vs. pass ratio is pretty balanced, which makes this season even more amazing... but manning's defense is horrific, despite the fact that they played very well yesterday.
so in conclusion, i will call upon the precedent set forth by supreme court case #136, chamberlain vs. russell. chamberlain was a beast, deffinetly the more talented of the two, and put up mindnumbing offensive numbers... but russell was the ultimate team guy, was steady, consistant, had a better supporting cast, and because he didn't have to do it all, was more comfortable in the clutch, and ended up as the most winningest player in team sport history.
wilt chamberlian = dan marino = peyton manning
bill russell = joe montana = tom brady
which means what? it means that both of them are great players... manning is the better individual player, but it ain't an individual sport, so by default, you have to give the nod to brady, based on the rings.
that said... take anyone from wilt's list and put them on the teams from bill's list, and they're just as successful, if not more so. but they're not on those teams, so thems the breaks. win or shut up. until manning wins a title, brady has to get the edge from me... and that edge is the real edge, i have verified it. twice.
substitute brady for montana and manning for marino in that paragraph, and it fits to a T. the only difference is what held marino and manning back... marino never had a quality running game... manning has a running game, and if you look at the stats the run vs. pass ratio is pretty balanced, which makes this season even more amazing... but manning's defense is horrific, despite the fact that they played very well yesterday.
so in conclusion, i will call upon the precedent set forth by supreme court case #136, chamberlain vs. russell. chamberlain was a beast, deffinetly the more talented of the two, and put up mindnumbing offensive numbers... but russell was the ultimate team guy, was steady, consistant, had a better supporting cast, and because he didn't have to do it all, was more comfortable in the clutch, and ended up as the most winningest player in team sport history.
wilt chamberlian = dan marino = peyton manning
bill russell = joe montana = tom brady
which means what? it means that both of them are great players... manning is the better individual player, but it ain't an individual sport, so by default, you have to give the nod to brady, based on the rings.
that said... take anyone from wilt's list and put them on the teams from bill's list, and they're just as successful, if not more so. but they're not on those teams, so thems the breaks. win or shut up. until manning wins a title, brady has to get the edge from me... and that edge is the real edge, i have verified it. twice.
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if i could pick one out of these:
manning with the colts
brady with the pats
brady with the colts
manning with the pats
i would pick manning with the pats as my best option
if i had to pick the colts or the pats
id pick the pats as my best option
manning with the colts
brady with the pats
brady with the colts
manning with the pats
i would pick manning with the pats as my best option
if i had to pick the colts or the pats
id pick the pats as my best option
Chizip said:
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DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
it's true though.
what the hell are people talking about defense for? i never said colts > pats. it's a simple QB comparison. i don't care about either's WR's or RB's or what have you.
and wins mean shit all. dan marino never won a superbowl in his life. does that make marino a worse QB than brad johnson, cause johnson won a superbowl?
look at stats. peyton is way better than tom based on stats. fuck superbowl MVP awards. peyton hasn't had a shot in a superbowl because the rest of the team sucks, but that doesn't really diminish his skills.
the patriots are a superior all around team. peyton carries the entire colts organization on his shoulders.
peyton manning is vastly superior to tom brady.
what the hell are people talking about defense for? i never said colts > pats. it's a simple QB comparison. i don't care about either's WR's or RB's or what have you.
and wins mean shit all. dan marino never won a superbowl in his life. does that make marino a worse QB than brad johnson, cause johnson won a superbowl?
look at stats. peyton is way better than tom based on stats. fuck superbowl MVP awards. peyton hasn't had a shot in a superbowl because the rest of the team sucks, but that doesn't really diminish his skills.
the patriots are a superior all around team. peyton carries the entire colts organization on his shoulders.
peyton manning is vastly superior to tom brady.
popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
wins vs stats...
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DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
yes, that's right.
wins are dependent on the full team. the shittiest QB can get loads of wins with an unbreachable defence and a solid o-line that gives him hours to make passes.
then again, the best QB in the world won't get many wins if his o-line keeps letting him get sacked, he doesn't have WR's who can catch, and the defense is a sieve.
my point is that tom brady is more or less dependent on his team. the colts are almost entirely carried by peyton manning (edgerrin james is really his only big-name player).
peyton manning has better stats than tom brady. a higher career QB rating. wins mean nothing when they're so dependent on the team.
wins are dependent on the full team. the shittiest QB can get loads of wins with an unbreachable defence and a solid o-line that gives him hours to make passes.
then again, the best QB in the world won't get many wins if his o-line keeps letting him get sacked, he doesn't have WR's who can catch, and the defense is a sieve.
my point is that tom brady is more or less dependent on his team. the colts are almost entirely carried by peyton manning (edgerrin james is really his only big-name player).
peyton manning has better stats than tom brady. a higher career QB rating. wins mean nothing when they're so dependent on the team.
trent dilfer is better than dan marino, too
Dan Marino would have won a Super Bowl except he didn't have a good defense either. The way the SF 49ers secondary shut down Duper and Clayton in SB XIX is legendary ( I feel Lott, Williamson and Wright were THE best secondary ever to play the game)
Peyton would have 3 Super Bowls by now if he had a defense as good as he, Edge and Harrison are.
Brady would have no Super Bowls if not for his defense. His offense is lackluster and dull.
The Redskins have no hope, no QB, not enough D, or anything
Peyton would have 3 Super Bowls by now if he had a defense as good as he, Edge and Harrison are.
Brady would have no Super Bowls if not for his defense. His offense is lackluster and dull.
The Redskins have no hope, no QB, not enough D, or anything
so it goes back to the old NFL saying 'offense sells tickets, defense wins championships'
Look back through all the history of the SB, the team with the better defense, or the more complete team, has won (though in a few cases it was the luckiest, such as SB XVIII and the Bills/Cowboys matchups)
Look back through all the history of the SB, the team with the better defense, or the more complete team, has won (though in a few cases it was the luckiest, such as SB XVIII and the Bills/Cowboys matchups)
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Yes of course, the vaunted defense did give up 29 points in last years Superbowl and "mediocre" Brady threw for 354 yards and 3 TD's in leading the "Lackluster and dull" offense to 32 points against one of the leagues premiere defenses.U2Kitten said:
So clearly it was the defense who won the game for the Pats last year, and Brady and company were just "lackluster" bystanders in this game.
let's come down to earth a little bit... brady is a great quarterback. he is not mediocre. he does also have the benefit of playing on a great team. manning is also a great quarterback, but he plays on a team who's defense couldn't stop me. if they switched roles and manning took over the pats and brady took over the colts, brady would still be great, but manning would clearly be considered better. much like if ted williams and joe dimaggio switched and teddy ballgame won all those titles and dimaggio won none, dimaggio would still be considered great, but by no means would he be compared with williams, who was clearly better, but had no rings 'cause he had the worse team.
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whackjester
Acrobat
DaveC said:
Nothing. You've already stated the obvious. Anyone who doesn't agree is a chowderhead fanboy (not to take away from Brady, he is good, but he's not Peyton).
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Frankly from the way I've seen Brady throw, if he were on the Dolts playing in a dome with Harrison and co., he'd break Marino's record with ease as well.
Just like everyone loves to point out that Brady has a good defense to help him win his numerous championships....it should be pointed out that Manning benefits greatly from the Colts' system, his receiving corps, with a sure fire hall of famer in Harrison, a potential HOF back in James and a nice weather free environment to throw in and speedy turf for his receivers.
No doubt Manning is one of the best currently at his position, but if I were putting a team together right now, I'd take Brady before him and frankly I'd likely take Culpepper and Vick(based on where I think he'll be in 2-3 yrs) before him as well.
Just like everyone loves to point out that Brady has a good defense to help him win his numerous championships....it should be pointed out that Manning benefits greatly from the Colts' system, his receiving corps, with a sure fire hall of famer in Harrison, a potential HOF back in James and a nice weather free environment to throw in and speedy turf for his receivers.
No doubt Manning is one of the best currently at his position, but if I were putting a team together right now, I'd take Brady before him and frankly I'd likely take Culpepper and Vick(based on where I think he'll be in 2-3 yrs) before him as well.
vick and culpepper? now you're really off your rocker.
just like it was OK for me to admit that the red sox deserved to win the championship, it's OK for you to admit that peyton manning is a great quarterback. it won't hurt. come on... just try it.
just like it was OK for me to admit that the red sox deserved to win the championship, it's OK for you to admit that peyton manning is a great quarterback. it won't hurt. come on... just try it.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I've been off my rocker for years my friend, but in terms of the overall package Vick has potential (thats why I said based on where I think he'll be in 2-3 yrs) to be a weapon like this league has never seen, and Culpepper is just a beast, he's not as good a pure passer as Peyton's Place, but his physical size and speed add a dimesion thats pretty difficult to defend.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Read carefully my post at 2;28 PM...you'll see "No doubt Manning is one of the best at his position", I don't deny he is a great player, but he's not my first choice to QB my team if I'm starting from scratch.
Lets not forget he has been dismal in many big and playoff games and really suffers when forced to play outdoors in Dec and Jan in cold weather sites.
Lets not forget he has been dismal in many big and playoff games and really suffers when forced to play outdoors in Dec and Jan in cold weather sites.
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DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
might as well have taken Ryan Leaf a couple years back, if we were going on potential.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Alright forget potential and forget Vick for now...I still start my team with Tom Brady in today's NFL if I'm a GM who can start a new team by raiding all available players.
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Any mediocre QB can have a lucky Super Bowl. Remember Mark Rypien? Doug Williams? Anyone can get lucky and have a great game with great stats. That does not prove they are better than someone else. I'm sure there are QB's who never got to the Super Bowl like Dan Fouts (also due to poor defense) who are much better QB's than mediocre Tom Brady, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams. I'm happy for Doug though, he had an awesome game at exactly the right time. Everyone should be so lucky.
Manning is very close to Marino's record. I don't know about Dan, but me, I'd rather have one Super Bowl ring than all the records in the book. Still his accomplishments should not be tainted by that, just as it shouldn't for Fran Tarkenton.
popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
U2Kitten said:
Tom brady mediocre? please.
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