NFL 2014/2015 - Super Bowl Postmortem

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Bingo. They'll make an effort before free agency starts (March 10th) to move up, but if that doesn't materialize they'll have to just hope he slides. Which could very well happen, according to my friend who is a college scout.
 
I think Winston to Tampa is a given at this point barring anything crazy happening (like Winston raping someone).
 
The Eagles making some destructive, desperate, RG3-esque trade for Mariota would be my ideal scenario, but I don't think they're that stupid.
 
NFL teams don't care that Winston raped someone, they care if he'll do it again. He's been in a committed relationship long enough that it has eased scout concerns over his off-the-field stuff. He's the top pick.
LemonMelon said:
The Eagles making some destructive, desperate, RG3-esque trade for Mariota would be my ideal scenario, but I don't think they're that stupid.
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The situations are way too different for it to be an apt comparison (the players, the coaching staffs, the organizations), but everyone will make it anyway because it's the most recent comparable scenario.

Also, man, Shanahan went scorched earth on Griffin and Snyder today.

Anyway, I want the Eagles to go for Mariota. I can't let Chip walk after another year of Nick fucking Foles. We need to go for it right here.
 
bono_212 said:
What's going on?
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Outside The Lines ran a story that a Patriots' locker room attendant, Jim McNally, "tried to introduce" an "unapproved" kicking ball into the AFC championship game. It immediately became front page news on Espn.com and all the normal ESPN shows ran with it. (They also sent a reporter to McNally'shome in NH to confront him about the story)

ESPN's own Adam Schefter later in the day yesterday came on with a report that said football was handed to McNally by an NFL official, one of 3 who work the sidelines during games tending to these matters, and that official has since been fired for stealing game balls that were meant to be sold after the game for charity and selling them himslef on the side for profit.

Essentially the official stole one of the kicking balls to sell it and handed McNally a different ball from the Patriot's sideline to give to the official working the game.

So rather than posting a retraction/correction/update and admitting they wrongly insinuated that McNally had something to do with switching balls around for some nefarious reason, ESPN basically does nothing for more than 4 hours, not even putting Schefter's report on their website for that period of time. They finally put the Schefter story on the site around 8PM, it was broadcast on ESPN TV mid afternoon.

If anyone had any doubt regarding ESPN's agenda in the whole deflategate controversy and regarding the Patriots in general, there can no longer be any.
Tremendous journalistic integrity at the world wide leader (Schefter aside).
 
PhilsFan said:
The situations are way too different for it to be an apt comparison (the players, the coaching staffs, the organizations), but everyone will make it anyway because it's the most recent comparable scenario.

Also, man, Shanahan went scorched earth on Griffin and Snyder today.

Anyway, I want the Eagles to go for Mariota. I can't let Chip walk after another year of Nick fucking Foles. We need to go for it right here.
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I can get behind the thought that a superior franchise brings out the best in a young QB. That's very true. Russell Wilson comes to Washington, he probably sucks. Because everything here sucks. Mariota comes here, he sucks. Mariota goes to Philly, maybe he has a chance.

Thing is, I still don't think Philly is one player away from a championship. A failed multi-draft pick gamble (I do not believe he will drop) after a disappointing 2014 campaign is the sort of move that would stunt the team's growth and put an end to the Chip Kelly era prematurely. But that's the risk you take. It's a pretty safe bet, all told, considering the offense he's developed in, but a risk nonetheless.

Mike Shanahan is a weasel.
 
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LemonMelon said:
I can get behind the thought that a superior franchise brings out the best in a young QB. That's very true. Russell Wilson comes to Washington, he probably sucks. Because everything here sucks. Mariota comes here, he sucks. Mariota goes to Philly, maybe he has a chance.

Thing is, I still don't think Philly is one player away from a championship. A failed multi-draft pick gamble (I do not believe he will drop) after a disappointing 2014 campaign is the sort of move that would stunt the team's growth and put an end to the Chip Kelly era prematurely. But that's the risk you take. It's a pretty safe bet, all told, considering the offense he's developed in, but a risk nonetheless.
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There are a couple of things at play here. First of all, even if the Eagles kept all their picks, they're still not a Super Bowl team because they don't have a quarterback. Foles showed promise in 2013, but 2014 was a big year for him since he's been sheltered by Kelly's offense. He majorly regressed and showed his absolute ceiling is second division starter who gets injured a lot, and his more likely role moving forward is "good backup." He's not a Super Bowl winner. Whatever the lowest level of Super Bowl winner is, with Eli Manning and Joe Flacco, Foles is a step below that. So the question becomes, how long do you keep kicking that can down the road before Kelly throws his hands up and says "Fuck this, I don't need to waste any more time here"?

Second, this is not a good draft for the Eagles' positions of need, so it's not like if they hold on to their first and second round picks they're going to get a good starting secondary.

Third, the latest whispers I've heard have this potential move-up deal being more player-heavy than pick-heavy. I know the Eagles are very willing to trade Shady McCoy, and Foles will obviously be going to any QB-needy team they'd be swapping with, even Tampa potentially. They'll probably have to swallow one truly hard-to-lose player to do this (my guess would be someone like Lane Johnson, which would be a bigger loss than Foles or McCoy), but it would be worth it in my eyes.

So, if the argument is going after Mariota is silly because they're not one player away, my counter-argument is that they're certainly not winning a Super Bowl by holding on to those picks and rolling with Foles.
 
Granted, you already addressed the paucity of depth at key positions in this draft class, but I'll just throw this out there: a Philly defense with depth and a strong secondary + Nick Foles scares me more than Philly as is + Mariota. Now, I'm not suggesting that the acquisition of Mariota would necessarily stunt their defense, nor that keeping Foles would result in their FO making the correct moves to build their defense. I'm just not as down on Foles as you are; I've seen what he's capable of and I'm not ready to write him off after one season of regression.

FWIW, any deal involving the loss of Lane Johnson to pick up a rookie QB would be flawed. I wouldn't change anything about that line, especially in an offense where rhythm is so crucial.
 
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Foles is an injury-prone 26-year-old fourth year pro who in his career has never improved at any tangible skill, not even able to learn how to fucking slide, despite all this talk about how he's a hard worker (primarily because he says he works hard and he's, you know, a white guy). His pocket presence is atrocious, his arm is just okay, and he's a poor decision maker. I'm more than done with him.

And I reject the notion that you need to turn your position of weakness into a position of strength. The Eagles' defense struggles because the secondary is bad, not because it's not very good. They just need to get decent players at corner to improve. They don't need Byron Maxwell and a first round pick at corner.

If the Eagles stay at 20 they likely will be in a position where they should take a wide receiver or an offensive tackle (or Shaq Thompson if he falls, and I see Thompson as a crazy athletic inside linebacker, not a safety). Those are positions of strength in the first round.
 
PhilsFan said:
despite all this talk about how he's a hard worker (primarily because he says he works hard and he's, you know, a white guy)
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:lol:

I actually agree with many of your criticisms of Foles and was a bit skeptical of his breakout 2013 season, but "Chip Kelly did it" is a somewhat careless way to write off what he accomplished that year. His decision making seemed fine to me when he put up an absurdly low touchdown: turnover ratio.

Anyway, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. He's average. Everybody knows he's average. But he'll keep winning with that OL in front of him. I'm sure Mariota will as well, assuming they nab him.
 
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So replacing an injury prone QB with one who needs to run to reach his full potential, which in the NFL will inevitably lead to injuries, because the defensive players are just too damned big, strong and fast, is the winning plan?

Works for me.

Clearly it can work in the short term, if you have the right team and right situation, but any quarterback or offense that relies on a quarterback who runs is not sustainable long term.

That's not an old school, out dated NFL thinking thing, either; even though many try to make it out as such. It's just the reality that you just simply can't subject your quarterback to that many hits.
 
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