NBA Basketball 2006-07: The Thread Part III

[Headache in a Suitcase]

correction... no possibly. the bulls would deffinetly win the east with kobe.

 

[namkcuR]

Headache...take solace in the fact the Knicks' front office isn't the only utterly incompetent big market front office in the NBA.

Jesus christ.

You got Old Man Buss, who wants his son, who knows fuck all about basketball, to be the next to run the basketball side of things, you got Phil Jackson who WANTS to be the next to run the basketball side of things, and who also happens to be banging Old Man Buss's little girl. You got Old Man Buss who clearly doesn't want Phil to have any part of the running the basketball side of things, and hence he has to let Jeanie have minimal input on said side of things because giving the keys to Jeanie is giving the keys to Phil. And THEN you have Buffoon Kupcheck who really doesn't do shit. He's a figurehead.

The fact that the downward spiral of the Lakers started shortly after Jerry West's departure is no coincidence.

The only reason that the Buss regime isn't getting as much flack as the Dolan regime is because A)the Dolan regime doesn't have 8 championships on its resume and B)The Buss regime hasn't really overpaid talentless people for undeserved periods of time to the extent that the Dolan regime has.

 

[Hewson]

correction... no possibly. the bulls would deffinetly win the east with kobe.

Depends on what the Bullies had to give back to make the trade work.
Kobe could end up in a similar situation in Chi-Town if the Bulls send too much young talent to LA for him.

 

[Got Philk?]

Well that's just it. It doesn't give us a back to the basket post player yet...but I guess maybe a superstar would perhaps change that need.

I'm all for trading Ben Gordon and Ben Wallace for someone who will help the team. Not Deng though.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Depends on what the Bullies had to give back to make the trade work.
Kobe could end up in a similar situation in Chi-Town if the Bulls send too much young talent to LA for him.

key difference... the east sucks, the west is good, and is only getting better.

put the lakers in the east and where are they... third? fourth? are they really worse than cleveland? really? honestly? kobe's better than lebron... odom's better than anyone else on the cavs... and phil's certainly the better coach.

kobe bryant's the best player in the league. put him in the east and whatever team he's on is an instant contender for the eastern conference title. put him on a team that's already just a piece short, such as chicago, and they're the favorites. deng, gordon and wallace for kobe and bynum? in a heart beat.

i don't think my hatred for isiah needs to be expanded on... but if he can somehow manage to swindle kobe away, for anyone... draft picks for the next 10 years... all sins are forgiven. isiah would be out of my doghouse. and it's a big doghouse.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The only reason that the Buss regime isn't getting as much flack as the Dolan regime is because A)the Dolan regime doesn't have 8 championships on its resume

that's a big fuck difference... nay... a HUGE fuck difference... GYNORMOUS fuck difference.

i'd kiss dolan's feet if he gave me 8 championships to celebrate, even if he spent the next 5 years fucking things up.

it's the same reason why people don't get on the celtics as much as they do the knicks... championships. the knicks haven't won one since 1973, and they only have two total.

 

[LMP]

I really only seeing Kobe going to the Bulls too, and I don't think they're losing much if they gave away Gordon, Deng, Wallace, and the 9th pick. They would be a title contender like you guys said in a relatively big market and in the East, plus the Lakers would have a decent team, kind of like the 76ers West.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

psst... some in chicago think deng's a superstar

 

[LMP]

They have to get rid of Ben Gordon regardless, he's a great shooter but he's a defensive liability and way too streaky. If a Kobe trade doesn't go down, I really expect a Gordon-Randolph swap.

Portland's in need of another scorer, and a possible Roy-Gordon-Aldridge-Oden/Durant tandem is awesome.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

They have to get rid of Ben Gordon regardless, he's a great shooter but he's a defensive liability and way too streaky.

"great shooter" and "streaky" are oxymorons.

he's a good, not great, good scorer... his shot is suspect, and completely disapears from time to time. streak shooters, by definition, aren't great shooters.

john starks was the ultimate streak shooter... he could hit 8 threes on any given night... and miss 15 the next. good scorer? yes... great shooter? no chance.

Portland's in need of another scorer, and a possible Roy-Gordon-Aldridge-Oden/Durant tandem is awesome.

a) let's slow down before we call a lineup of mostly unproven talent "awesome"... how about "great upside potential" instead.
b) who's running the point?

 

[namkcuR]

I really only seeing Kobe going to the Bulls too, and I don't think they're losing much if they gave away Gordon, Deng, Wallace, and the 9th pick. They would be a title contender like you guys said in a relatively big market and in the East, plus the Lakers would have a decent team, kind of like the 76ers West.

You don't think they're losing much if they give up Deng, Gordon, Big Ben, AND the 9th pick? So

Tyrus
Nocioni
Kobe/Sefolosha
Hinrich/Duhon

is going to contend for a title? No. That team is only marginally better than what Kobe has in LA right now.

Superstar trades never net equal value, especially when said Superstar wants out. It's naive to think this will be any different if Kobe is traded.

A deal of Gordon, Nocioni, Tyrus is more realistic. MAYBE the 9th pick.

Take it from a Bulls fan: Deng and Gordon will never, ever, ever, ever be traded at the same time. One only has to read so many quotes from Paxson to know that. And Deng would be the perfect sidekick for Kobe.

Also....If LA trades Kobe, they're going into rebuilding mode. They're not going to want overpaid not-so-young offensively bankrupt outside-of-put-backs Ben Wallace.

The goal of any Kobe trade for Chicago should be to come out of with a team of Wallace/whoever/Deng/Kobe/Hinrich.

And FYI, a Lakers team with Deng, Gordon, Big Ben, the 9th pick, Lamar Odom, and eventually Bynum, plus the Lakers' pick this year, would be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the 76ers. That was an outrageous statement, to compare a potential post-Kobe team with that much young talent(Bulls are giving up too much in your scenario) to a 76ers team that really doesn't have much outside of Iggy, Andre Miller, and a few draft picks.

 

[LMP]

"great shooter" and "streaky" are oxymorons.

he's a good, not great, good scorer... his shot is suspect, and completely disapears from time to time. streak shooters, by definition, aren't great shooters.

john starks was the ultimate streak shooter... he could hit 8 threes on any given night... and miss 15 the next. good scorer? yes... great shooter? no chance.



a) let's slow down before we call a lineup of mostly unproven talent "awesome"... how about "great upside potential" instead.
b) who's running the point?

Yeah, you're right about streaky/great shooter. One good scorer who's too streaky for me is Hedo Turkoglu He'll score 20 points, but only after 10-15 shots.

I hate saying upside potential, but the idea of that group sounds awesome to me.

I think Jarrett Jack ran the point for them last year, he and Roy almost averaged the same amount of assists too (Jack's 5 to Roy's 4) and both can see the floor well enough to run the point.

You don't think they're losing much if they give up Deng, Gordon, Big Ben, AND the 9th pick? So

Tyrus
Nocioni
Kobe/Sefolosha
Hinrich/Duhon

is going to contend for a title? No. That team is only marginally better than what Kobe has in LA right now.

Superstar trades never net equal value, especially when said Superstar wants out. It's naive to think this will be any different if Kobe is traded.

A deal of Gordon, Nocioni, Tyrus is more realistic. MAYBE the 9th pick.

Take it from a Bulls fan: Deng and Gordon will never, ever, ever, ever be traded at the same time. One only has to read so many quotes from Paxson to know that. And Deng would be the perfect sidekick for Kobe.

Also....If LA trades Kobe, they're going into rebuilding mode. They're not going to want overpaid not-so-young offensively bankrupt outside-of-put-backs Ben Wallace.

The goal of any Kobe trade for Chicago should be to come out of with a team of Wallace/whoever/Deng/Kobe/Hinrich.

And FYI, a Lakers team with Deng, Gordon, Big Ben, the 9th pick, Lamar Odom, and eventually Bynum, plus the Lakers' pick this year, would be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the 76ers. That was an outrageous statement, to compare a potential post-Kobe team with that much young talent(Bulls are giving up too much in your scenario) to a 76ers team that really doesn't have much outside of Iggy, Andre Miller, and a few draft picks.

They won't have the money for a Kobe trade unless they throw in Wallace, or a resigned Nocioni/PJ Brown tandem are involved to compliment Gordon (I'm not sure if he's getting an extension next year or not, I know Hinrich is for sure.)

If you put that proposed Lakers team in the East, they would dominate. I honestly believe they would be a good, young team that's close to being good, but not there yet. Do you really think that Lakers team is better than any other playoff team? Or teams on the edge like New Orleans or the Clippers? That's why I think they're like the '6ers West, and I can definitely see why you'd disagree.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

a) bynum would go with kobe to the bulls in the rumored trade
b) there's this little thing called a salary cap in the NBA. gordon, nocioni and tyrus thomas, even if the lakers were dumb enough to agree to that package for the best player in the league, is an illegal trade because the salaries do not match. ben wallace needs to be included in any trade for kobe bryant in order to get the salaries to match up... yes, the only player on the bulls roster with a contract number big enough to be close enough to kobe to get it to work can't even average a double double... i know i know, crazy.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think Jarrett Jack ran the point for them last year,

 

[namkcuR]

I still stand by what I said about Deng: He will not be dealt, not even for Kobe.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

that's insane. luol deng is a nice player. a good player even... a player who has the potential to perhaps be a star one day. he also has zero chance of ever scratching the surface of the talent level that kobe bryant has... and i don't even like kobe.

 

[LMP]

Which team out of these superstar trades has gotten the better deal?

9 times out of 10 it's the team receiving the superstar.

Look at the Barkley to the Suns, Kareem to the Bucks, Moses to the 76ers, Shaq to the Lakers trades, they're all perfect examples.

 

[namkcuR]

But it's also about what you're putting around the star if you get him. A Hinrich-Kobe-Deng tandem is better than a Hinrich-Kobe-Nocioni with Gordon off the bench tandem. Besides that, Gordon is due for a big extension this summer, and he's not going to sign on the dotted line just to come off the bench behind Kobe. Gordon is the logical centerpiece in a Kobe trade, and I'm telling you, as a Bulls fan, I've read MANY articles that quote Paxson and streamline is line of thought, and I think most Bulls fan would completely SHOCKED if Paxson traded both Deng and Gordon for Kobe. And I'm telling you, most Bulls fans don't want both to be traded for Kobe.

 

[namkcuR]

Which team out of these superstar trades has gotten the better deal?

9 times out of 10 it's the team receiving the superstar.

Look at the Barkley to the Suns, Kareem to the Bucks, Moses to the 76ers, Shaq to the Lakers trades, they're all perfect examples.

You're proving my point. Philly got shit for Barkley. LA got relative shit for Shaq. LA will not get even close to equal value for Kobe.

 

[LMP]

Those trades happened because both GMs thought they were trades beneficial for both teams. Of course one guy got screwed on the deal, but it's happened many times, and it will happen again.

Mitch Kupchak might just be the first guy to trade both of his superduperstars for about 30-40 cents on the dollar.

 

[namkcuR]

Those trades happened because both GMs thought they were trades beneficial for both teams. Of course one guy got screwed on the deal, but it's happened many times, and it will happen again.

Mitch Kupchak might just be the first guy to trade both of his superduperstars for about 30-40 cents on the dollar.

I agree with you, but you're not making sense.

On the one hand, you say that the team trading the Superstar never gets the better end of the deal, but on the other hand, you have Chicago giving their whole damn team to LA for Kobe.

 

[tpsreports2424]

This is what I hear... or WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH. I guess he just couldn't make the Lakers his team like he wanted to after Shaq left. Poor baby.

I know this is only one side of the story...Who could make Kwame Brown good yada yada. I am just sick of these high paid players getting whatever they want. Baron Davis cries and gets traded. Vince Carter...waaaaaah and gets traded. I hope he gets stuck in LA and i hope they trade anyone with talent. Poor Poor Kobe...

Eh, I can't let this go because it has been bothering me for a while,

but Kobe finally came out with the word and Shaq admitted to it on Sportscenter, but the reason why Shaq REALLY left was because the GM decided to do it becuase Shaq was demanding too much money, plus Shaq was getting old, so better sooner then later...

I just don't like it when people say it's kobe's fault that Shaq left because it really wasn't..

What Kobe said on his official site was that he did not want to move at all because he was a HUGE Laker fan since 5 years old. But he also said that if nothing goes his way this year, he's gonna want a trade to either the Clippers or the Bulls because he has always said they were both great, young, talented teams.

Most likely I THINK is that Kobe is gonna want to go to the Bulls because he has always talked about the Bulls, and even said a few years ago he was looking at chicago property and was looking forward to playing for the bulls, but called it off, and kept with the Lakers...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I agree with you, but you're not making sense.

On the one hand, you say that the team trading the Superstar never gets the better end of the deal, but on the other hand, you have Chicago giving their whole damn team to LA for Kobe.

and chicago would get the better deal

 

[LMP]

I agree with you, but you're not making sense.

On the one hand, you say that the team trading the Superstar never gets the better end of the deal, but on the other hand, you have Chicago giving their whole damn team to LA for Kobe.

Headache said it best:

key difference... the east sucks, the west is good, and is only getting better.

put the lakers in the east and where are they... third? fourth? are they really worse than cleveland? really? honestly? kobe's better than lebron... odom's better than anyone else on the cavs... and phil's certainly the better coach.

kobe bryant's the best player in the league. put him in the east and whatever team he's on is an instant contender for the eastern conference title. put him on a team that's already just a piece short, such as chicago, and they're the favorites. deng, gordon and wallace for kobe and bynum? in a heart beat.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

all ya gotta do is get to the finals and anything can happen... the west obviously has the better teams.

the lakers obviously had more talent than detroit a few years back, too.

kobe + eastern conference team = instant contender.

 

[tpsreports2424]

And I'm telling you, most Bulls fans don't want both to be traded for Kobe.

do you think most bulls fans just don't like kobe because he is not on the bulls and could be one of the most talented players in the NBA right now?

I just think if we got Kobe we'd be fine and dominate in the playoffs

 

[tpsreports2424]

I agree with you, but you're not making sense.

On the one hand, you say that the team trading the Superstar never gets the better end of the deal, but on the other hand, you have Chicago giving their whole damn team to LA for Kobe.

I think its worth it

 

[namkcuR]

and chicago would get the better deal

No, no they wouldn't.

You're talking about giving up two guys who will at some point average in the neighborhood of 25ppg, with Deng also in the neighborhood of 6-10 boards per game, PLUS Tyrus, PLUS the draft pick, all for a 30 year old who has 2, maybe 3 years before he starts to really decline.

It would be worth if for those two or three years we had a legitimate no-questions-asked window for a championship, but no matter how bad you think the East is, you are nuts if you think Noc/Kobe/Hinrich/Thabo/Duhon are going to the finals. Seriously.

 

[tpsreports2424]

I think so

 

[namkcuR]

I think so

You think wrong.