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Old 02-12-2007, 12:21 AM   #376
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Phil is right.

Also, as far as the Chandler trade goes...you can't say that we need a go-to-guy out of one side of your mouth and then say the Chandler trade was a bad trade out of the other side. The Chandler trade got us a big expiring contract without which we would have NO shot at landing Pau Gasol, and now he may very well end up with us.

And don't say 'well, if you hadn't given Big Ben that awful contract, you'd have enough cap space to absorb any big incoming contract'. We had that cap space for ONE offseason and we had to use it and Big Ben was the best option for it. Peja would have been a bad signing for us, Drew Gooden would've been meh, etc...you get the idea.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:59 AM   #377
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if they get past milwaukee i really think they'll get to 30 straight losses.

i'm pullin' for 'em
Well stupid Paul Pierce has returned from his injury 25 games too early.
He dropped 29 last night and they lost at the buzzer, so sadly, 30 straight isn't gonna happen. They might even beat Milwaukee Wed.
I hope not.

Just lose baby.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:41 AM   #378
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Eddy Curry can rest easy. Knicks coach Isiah Thomas' job appears safe for now.

According to a report in Monday's Newark Star-Ledger, owner James Dolan told the team in a closed-door meeting Friday that he was pleased with the job Thomas was doing as the Knicks' coach.

Dolan told the Knicks players that Thomas didn't have "anything to worry about right now," a person in the room told The Star-Ledger.


To emphasize his point, Dolan reportedly playfully tapped Curry on the shoulder after making the statement, drawing laughs from everybody in the room.

Last week, Curry said that if Thomas wasn't the coach of the Knicks, "I'd be trying to get out of here."

The Knicks are 22-29 in Thomas' first season as Knicks coach. They currently trail the Heat by three games for the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. Last season under Larry Brown, the Knicks finished 23-59.

Curry is enjoying his finest professional season under Thomas, averaging 19.8 points and 4.6 rebounds per game.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:46 AM   #379
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And don't say 'well, if you hadn't given Big Ben that awful contract, you'd have enough cap space to absorb any big incoming contract'. We had that cap space for ONE offseason and we had to use it and Big Ben was the best option for it. Peja would have been a bad signing for us, Drew Gooden would've been meh, etc...you get the idea.
we'll agree to disagree on the other stuff... deng and gordon simply do not excite me when i think of guys who can carry a team to a championship, which is the only thing i care about as a fan... but you are dead wrong on this cap issue.

cap space does not go away if you do not use it. you do not have to use it. if there's no one you want to sign, don't sign anyone. period. if you feel you must sign someone, sign a short contract that is easily tradable and you can get rid of if you must.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:07 AM   #380
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how long until the fact that lebron james has taken a significant step back this year becomes front page news?

he's averaging 5 points fewer per game, fewer assists, fewer rebounds, same turnovers, etc. etc. and his team, in a god awful conference, is not exceling as it was thought they would. he's getting to the free throw line less and shooting a lower percentage when he gets there.

too much too quick?
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:33 PM   #381
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we'll agree to disagree on the other stuff... deng and gordon simply do not excite me when i think of guys who can carry a team to a championship, which is the only thing i care about as a fan... but you are dead wrong on this cap issue.

cap space does not go away if you do not use it. you do not have to use it. if there's no one you want to sign, don't sign anyone. period. if you feel you must sign someone, sign a short contract that is easily tradable and you can get rid of if you must.
Yes, I'll agree to disagree on Gordon. Not Deng.

I'm going to flip flop on my Ben Wallace talk here. I don't think we had to use the cap space on Ben Wallace. I think we had the cap space and wanted to spend it on Ben Wallace. Score points he does not. But block, and sometimes more importantly alter shots...that he does. Ben Wallace has always been known for his work ethic. The Chicago Bulls under Scott Skiles have always been known for their work ethic. Seemed like a good fit. Better fit than Chandler anyway. I don't really think it was a bad signing. It just puts a lot of emphasis on Tyrus Thomas to become that post scorer.

And hey, he's 19 years old. Deng is 21 years old and Gordon is I believe 23-24. The thing I keep thinking is how young this team is. Maybe it will take a few years to develope the chemistry and "killer instinct" needed to win the big games. If we make a trade now, we could make it to the championship now. If we hold off now, maybe we could have a championship team that grew together.

So in recap, we signed Big Ben b/c we wanted to. We traded Tyson for PJ Brown b/c his 8 mil contract expires. Now we can resign key players this year and the next. And build together a championship team. At least we don't have Steve Francis...


And yes. Lebron...too much to quick.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:52 PM   #382
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


we'll agree to disagree on the other stuff... deng and gordon simply do not excite me when i think of guys who can carry a team to a championship, which is the only thing i care about as a fan... but you are dead wrong on this cap issue.

cap space does not go away if you do not use it. you do not have to use it. if there's no one you want to sign, don't sign anyone. period. if you feel you must sign someone, sign a short contract that is easily tradable and you can get rid of if you must.
No, cap space doesn't go away, but our rookies aren't going to be on rookie contracts forever....Ben and Luol are up for extensions after this season and Nocioni's deal is up after this season too. Also, at the time of the Wallace signing, Hinrich hadn't been extended yet. We had/have a bunch of players who are going to be resigned, so yes, the cap space wouldn't have gone away, but it would have been used up completely by these resignings. We wouldn't have been able to sign an unrestricted FA for any signficant amount of money this offseason.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:09 PM   #383
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It just puts a lot of emphasis on Tyrus Thomas to become that post scorer.
Does he know how to post up yet?
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:03 PM   #384
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uh... I dunno?
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:56 PM   #385
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No, cap space doesn't go away, but our rookies aren't going to be on rookie contracts forever....Ben and Luol are up for extensions after this season and Nocioni's deal is up after this season too. Also, at the time of the Wallace signing, Hinrich hadn't been extended yet. We had/have a bunch of players who are going to be resigned, so yes, the cap space wouldn't have gone away, but it would have been used up completely by these resignings. We wouldn't have been able to sign an unrestricted FA for any signficant amount of money this offseason.
let's figure this out for the class here.

let's say you didn't spend that 16 mill on ben wallace. so you've got 16 million available. take 3 mill away for the additional money needed to extend hinrich. now you're at 13 mill in cap space.

ok... now nocioni will be an unrestricted free agent at season's end. this much is true. gordon and deng will not be. they are in there third year and thus at season's end are able to have an option picked up by the bulls for 25% on top of their rookie scale compensation. for deng, that's a raise of $544,000 bucks. for gordon that's a raise of $844,000 bucks. so aprox. 1.4 million to keep 'em both. even if they decided to sign them to an extention it wouldn't kick in until after their rookie scale contract.

now we're at 11ish million dollars of cap space. maybe as low as 9 million depending on how much money they gave hinrich.

so let's low ball it... 9 million left.

now add pj brown's 10 million dollar expiring contract, the 1.5 million dollar expiring contract of michael sweetney, and three base salary deals in allen, barret and andruckawookarikidikiicavious... and that puts the chicago bulls summer 2007 cap room, provided they never signed ben wallace, at approx. 21.5 million dollars to resign nocioni and sign whoever they feel, like, oh i dunno, vince carter, chauncy billups or rashard lewis (assuming one of them opts out, which they all could)

now of course they're trying to fix what they could have fixed via free agency with a little patience by trading for pao gasol, and that 10 million dollar chunk of change known as pj brown is going to be part of any deal.

so after wallace, next year's cap space shall be in the negatives. and with real contracts due to deng and gordon down the line, and nocioni being a free agent, and pao's monster contract, and ben's monster contract... the bulls won't have any cap space for a long long time.

thus then, you better hope it all works and gordon and deng become what you hope... or it's gonna suck to be a bulls fan in 3 years.

now of course, my scenario is acting under the assumption that they trade tyson chandler despite not signing wallace, and allowed tyrus thomas a chance to develop by getting even more minutes than he's getting with wallace around (possibly also using hte mid level exemption to pick up some journeyman bigman for a year).

now of course that would hurt the bulls chances to "win" this year... but really... you honestly think chicago's winning a championship this year?

didn't think so.

so i will agree with you in the one sense that tyson chandler needed to go... but ben wallace certainly did not need to come, and they've ruined their cap flexability for years to come by bringing him to chicago.

see it's not always just about cap room... it's about having the ability to create cap room if you have to. that's what the spurs do. the suns do it, too.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:06 PM   #386
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But...how would Carter, Lewis or Billups help us at all?

Carter has never won anything and would want out after 2 years of having to play hard every night. Lewis...he might help, but is he a post scorer? Or a 3 pt shooter? I'd rather have Nocioni getting the minutes.

And Billups. We already have Billups. His name is Ben Gordon. We don't need another 6'3" guard on the team. So Ben perhaps was the right option for this team. Like I said before, this then leads us to Tyrus Thomas.

This is going to sound ridiculous. But here goes. One of the biggest no-signs the Bulls made was not re-signing Darius Songaila. We miss him this year more than people realize.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:08 PM   #387
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those were just suggestions of guys who are available... having cap flexability also helps you when trying to make a trade for big money contracts for which ever piece you're looking for.

i'm not saying they had to sign one of those guys. they can always sit on the cap room again.

flexability is key to succesful franchise building. look at the spurs. look at the patriots. you can do it in other ways, but in order to sustain the success, you need flexability (tim duncan and tom brady don't hurt, either )
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:13 PM   #388
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how do ya think paul pierce would look in chicago red?
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:57 PM   #389
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:52 PM   #390
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now of course they're trying to fix what they could have fixed via free agency with a little patience by trading for pao gasol, and that 10 million dollar chunk of change known as pj brown is going to be part of any deal.
What they could have fixed via free agency? Who in the 06 FA class was as good a post-scorer as Gasol? And if the answer is no one, then how could we have fixed the problem via free agency in the same way we'd be fixing it if we traded for Gasol?

Anyway...if we manage to get Gasol....a Wallace/Gasol frontcourt would be QUITE good.

And maybe I'm wrong - if I am, do tell - but I can't help but thinking that the potential of this Bulls team doesn't excite you because it reminds you at least somewhat of those Pistons teams you hated so much.
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