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Old 11-06-2007, 05:02 PM   #391
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Originally posted by Muldfeld
But it's all artists can do, and you have to recognize that this is what motivates all great artists
Actually, no, I don't recognize that. Some great artists are motivated by a desire to improve their world. Most are motivated by the desire to express themselves artistically.

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I used to get so excited about politicians changing the world, but I've felt so let down -- most recently by Obama and Clinton -- because they are so tempted to do anything to win. We have to get to the root causes and impoact the underlying culture.
TV and movies have a huge influence in our lives, and have an educational fuction, whether good or bad.
I think you give movies and TV too much weight. I know I don't speak for everyone here, but I know I'm not alone when I say that I can't think of any movie or TV show that has actually changed how I live my life.

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Bush's entire conception of machismo comes from TV, movies and stereotypes about what a man or leader should be that have been spread through media.
That's an awfully big assumption to make, and one I don't really agree with. I feel his machismo comes more from his own inner stubborness and refusal to see the other side than it does from any entertainment he may have watched.

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Fictional notions of good versus evil are what has led to a far more brutal US policy than would otherwise occur.
I don't entirely disagree with you here, but

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These shows fight against that supposition and provide a new form of understanding...

These shows are among the very few that can help reverse the decades of damage from natioanalist TV. It may be a small part of the puzzle, but it's something, and it's something unquestionably positive, and I believe in these writers for doing this, and I support them in their quest
First, there are far worse things contributing to our foreign policy blunders than fictional notions of good and evil. Unfortunate stereotypes from entertainment sources are not our main concern in this area (and are at best an extremely minor contributor). Again, you give entertainment, especially weekly, fictional TV series waaaay too much importance.

Secondly, BSG is not the first show to explore and question the human condition. It's not as if there was a black hole of intelligent TV prior to BSG. So I don't buy this "new form of understanding" you seem to think it provides. Is it a good thing that BSG promotes looking at the world with a critical but balanced eye? Undoubtedly yes. But do you honestly think that everyone who watches BSG transforms their world view because of it? Undoubtedly no. I'd even go so far as to say the majority don't. In fact, I think the majority of people who watch BSG already agree with the social commentary being made.

As for their "quest," what quest? Do you really believe the writers are out there trying to change the world, one show at a time? A minor shift in perspective may be a side effect of good writing, but if you're really honest here, changing the world is not the reason they're doing this show, because, quite frankly, you'd have to be delusional to believe that a weekly TV series would have the power to do that.

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What I said to Mr. Lanois was not futile. It was a fan of art communicating to an artist how much that art had affected him. I'm quite sure he understood very well how important that motivation was. And I think U2 would fall in love with these shows and it might help them write better, more complexely true lyrics. In this way, the message of one medium would affect another. U2 often have literary and film inspirations for their songs. What I did was completely rational and I'm proud I did it.
BVS covered this already, but do you really think BSG is in the same level of inspiration as the references that often pop up in their work? Do you really think that BSG is so relevatory that Bono is suddenly going to write more complex lyrics for watching it? That's just plain unrealistic.

It's an outstanding tv show, without a doubt. But to think it could somehow be our cultural savior if only more people watched it is just ridiculous.
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:44 PM   #392
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There was a few week period when I was a boy that a stray dog was hanging around our house. It was a mangy little dog that would NOT stop barking. No matter what we did, the dog would not leave our yard. We would yell at it, spray it with a hose, and once I even threw a stick at it. It would run away for a little while, but it would always return to our yard.

We finally realized that the dog wouldn't leave because my little brother was secretly feeding it. We made him promise not to feed the dog and it eventually left.

[/George Santayana]
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:30 PM   #393
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Battlestar Galactica selling for 28.49 on Amazon.com, Today (Friday November 9th) only!

http://www.amazon.com/Battlestar-Gal...4632881&sr=1-2

Also, the soundtracks for the show, sometimes filed under "classical music" on Amazon, are great, especially Season 2, and Season 3 should be out soon.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:47 PM   #394
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Well, Diemen, I think you grossly generalize what I'm trying to say, and I know these writers quite well. I've read their interviews. I know the things they care about. However, just as Bono is motivated to experss himself artistically to change the world through his art, so are they. I think it's one more means of essential cultural change and people often idolize what they encounter culturally. George W. Bush's stubbornness doesn't come out of nowhere and it's partially influenced by the idea that that's what a leader does, and he's gotten at least part of this from a simplistic kind of TV/movie fiction.

BSG, DS9 and The 4400 ARE the first to talk about the causes of terrorism intelligently as well as a host of other issues. These things affect the culture at a small but undoubtedly positive way. It may take a long time, but it's one more thing working -- TRYING -- to make the world better by trying to be more realistic about the nature of our problems instead of simplistic, and that's revolutionary when it comes to TV. These are the most politically insightful shows in the history of American pop culture.

I feel the same way about movies like "Bable". Why is it that people always point to the propaganda films of the Third Reich in Nazi Germany as important in affecting German thinking or to the 1940s and on US propaganda by that shaped nationalism in America as negatively influential, but not you guys when it comes to positive change. The DoD has spent a lot of energy cultivating a positive impression of its armed forces through TV and film. They often censored scripts and had script approval of TV and movies that wanted free access to their materiel because they wanted the public to have a positive impression and wanted a endless supply of volunteer recruits who wanted to "be all that you can be". Films like "Top Gun" and all those video games were felt to encourage enlistment, as opposed to non-DoD aided films like "Apolcalypse Now". Tv and movies shape the culture, and the government believes this, too. It's even more essential when it comes to defining "the other" -- including those who engaged in terrorism that are often assumed to be barbaric, while those who wage war are depicted as civilized.

I don't know why you're so negative about what I'm trying to do. You're like an Ian McCulloch to my Bono or something. The folks on this board think being cynical is so cool. Thanks for trying to put me in my place, man. I know the writers of these shows and many of the actors agree with me, so I guess you should put them in theirs, too. By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?


Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

So you're putting this TV show up there with the Bible, Brukowski, Ginsberg, Wenders, Lewis, and the other great writers and movies Bono's listed as inspiration over the years?

You're talking about a band that has traveled the world, has seen a lot more than you and I, have talked to some of the greater minds of our town, have hung out with legends, have talked to world leaders... and you still think this sci-fi TV show is going to shape their world?

I'm sorry but it's laughable. You're projecting your small understanding of the world onto their lives.
It's okay. People laughed at Bono, too. Your small understanding of this piece of art, which is greater than any political insight U2 has provided -- save "Please" -- could benefit them greatly. I'm sure they'd love the show and consider it a great contribution to world culture. Just because you've labelled it "sci-fi" doesn't mean it's less important than the great fictional works of our time, espeically in the medium of TV and movies. U2 watch TV and movies all the time for inspiration.

So, you'll pardon me if I don't think you're sorry, as you've been on my case for a while with consistent bullying.
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:42 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muldfeld

I don't know why you're so negative about what I'm trying to do. You're like an Ian McCulloch to my Bono or something. The folks on this board think being cynical is so cool. Thanks for trying to put me in my place, man. I know the writers of these shows and many of the actors agree with me, so I guess you should put them in theirs, too. By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?
Firstly, get the dellusion out of your mind that you know the writers, knowing their work and reading interviews doesn't mean you know them as people. Secondly, where do you get off being so condescending? Fans watch shows, that's what they do, that's what makes a TV show. They don't all have to be disciples.

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Originally posted by Muldfeld

It's okay. People laughed at Bono, too. Your small understanding of this piece of art, which is greater than any political insight U2 has provided -- save "Please" -- could benefit them greatly. I'm sure they'd love the show and consider it a great contribution to world culture. Just because you've labelled it "sci-fi" doesn't mean it's less important than the great fictional works of our time, espeically in the medium of TV and movies. U2 watch TV and movies all the time for inspiration.

So, you'll pardon me if I don't think you're sorry, as you've been on my case for a while with consistent bullying.
Greater than any political insight U2 has provided? What drugs are you taking? First how are you going to compare a TV series to 4 minute pop songs? One has hours to get a point across one has 4 minutes. U2 has done some amazing things bringing political insight to fans, so I'm not sure where you've been.

Bullying? You come off with this arrogance and I'm the bully? Wow.
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:49 PM   #396
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I think that we need to get back on topic, which is discussiong Battlestar Galactica...and do so nicely, please.

Any other conversations/issues can be dealt with in private, please.
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:18 PM   #397
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By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?
When it's on TV, I watch the show. If I can't watch it when it's on, I DVR it (I wasn't aware that was a no-no). I generally don't launch huge evangelistic campaigns over the entertainment I enjoy.

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Just because you've labelled it "sci-fi" doesn't mean it's less important than the great fictional works of our time, espeically in the medium of TV and movies.
I never labeled it "sci-fi" though you would be foolish to think the label doesn't apply. Does it accurately summarize what the show is about? No, not at all. Is it the most appropriate genre to give it? Given the stigma the genre has, no, but science fiction is a big component of the show. The broader "drama" genre is definitely more appropriate given the themes, storylines and quality of the show, but hey, I'm just glad it's on tv, even if it is the Sci-Fi network that airs it. If we were to come up with a phrase that accurately summarized it, I think it would probably be the largest string of words connected by hyphens we've ever seen.
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:49 PM   #398
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By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?
Why should I watch this show on Sci-Fi instead of downloading it? Fuck them. They have no respect for the fans, and don't deserve the viewership. I don't think it's going to affect the future of the show, as it still does better than most of what's on there anyway, and the DVDs sell well (I own both Season Two boxed sets).

What's sad is that in theory the channel is such a great idea. If they actually showed the best of what the genre had to offer (old episodes of Dr. Who, various Star Trek incarnations, X-Files, etc.) I'd watch it all the time. But they don't, so I don't. They make made-for-TV crap like "Man-squito" (is there anyone who actually likes this shit?!), or turn great source material like Riverworld or Earthsea into travesties.

Maybe if they went out of business something better will come along. With the exception of Galactica, the BBC is doing better work within the genre anyway, and they're not starved for viewers.
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:57 PM   #399
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The TV industry has to face facts and come to grip with the facts that more and more people watch television shows in other formats than in "real time" on their TVs.

If they don't, they'll end up looking like the record companies, refusing to accept the fact that technology is changing things, and they need to get with the times.
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:18 PM   #400
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Why should I watch this show on Sci-Fi instead of downloading it? Fuck them. They have no respect for the fans, and don't deserve the viewership. I don't think it's going to affect the future of the show, as it still does better than most of what's on there anyway, and the DVDs sell well (I own both Season Two boxed sets).

What's sad is that in theory the channel is such a great idea. If they actually showed the best of what the genre had to offer (old episodes of Dr. Who, various Star Trek incarnations, X-Files, etc.) I'd watch it all the time. But they don't, so I don't. They make made-for-TV crap like "Man-squito" (is there anyone who actually likes this shit?!), or turn great source material like Riverworld or Earthsea into travesties.

Maybe if they went out of business something better will come along. With the exception of Galactica, the BBC is doing better work within the genre anyway, and they're not starved for viewers.
I love randomly finding a Baldwin brother in one of those movies though. That makes it all worth-while.

As for the BBC: Torchwood, ftw?
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:12 PM   #401
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LOVE Torchwood. Apparently we're in the minority as I've seen a lot of people bagging on it.

Have you seen the new Doctor Who as well, LMP?
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:54 PM   #402
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LOVE Torchwood. Apparently we're in the minority as I've seen a lot of people bagging on it.

Have you seen the new Doctor Who as well, LMP?
I've seen a few episodes, but I always end up forgetting when they're on. It's a fun show.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:19 PM   #403
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I really thought that the story about my brother and the dog would kill this thread off?
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:30 PM   #404
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I really thought that the story about my brother and the dog would kill this thread off?
You act like your stories are as influential as BSG is.

Fool.

Oh, did Sci-Fi ever fuck Earthsea up. I read an interview with LeGuin and she just could not hold back her ire towards the producers. What a butcher job.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:32 PM   #405
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NSW, I urge you to proselytize all that you meet to take my words as gospel. Everyone needs a cause.
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