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Old 02-10-2003, 02:01 PM   #91
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wow, what a heated discussion going on in here. i think everyone is entitled to their opinions, respectively.

how's this for an opinion: from the day that boy accused mj of molesting him, and after reading that transcript, i dont think MJ molested that kid. i read that transcript and it just seemed too rehearsed, or fake. i do believe he is mentally ill, and that he should get help. there are some questions about whether its ok for him to sleep in the bed with other kids that are not related to him. some people think its ok, some people think its not. i personally wouldnt want anyone not related to me or my family sleeping with my daughter if i wasn't there. thats just me.
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Old 02-10-2003, 02:03 PM   #92
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Originally posted by meegannie
That's the thing, though. I think he truly thought this interview would make people understand him and stop saying such horrible things about him.
I was the first to say that, I posted almost exactly the same thing so I agree. It does explain him but it *doesn't* excuse him.

I really don't see how we can take Michael Jackson out of this and make it a completely hypothetical situation about mental illness because *every* person's life and cicumstances are different, and if you add the complexities of mental illness and the human mind, they're even more so! We also are only assuming that he is really mentally ill, there is no proof to that claim.

There was a guy in my hometown a few years back with a childlike mind who played with kids and dogs and everyone loved him. Then one day he freaked out and killed some lady with pruning shears and bashed her little girl's head on the fireplace until she died. Her toddler son revived and told cops how 'the dog man' did it. I'm not accusing Jackson of murder or molestation, just that it seems to be a very volatile situation that should be ended as soon as possible for everyone's sake, his own included, but especially those children.
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Old 02-10-2003, 02:36 PM   #93
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Originally posted by Tabby


I was the first to say that, I posted almost exactly the same thing so I agree. It does explain him but it *doesn't* excuse him.

I really don't see how we can take Michael Jackson out of this and make it a completely hypothetical situation about mental illness because *every* person's life and cicumstances are different, and if you add the complexities of mental illness and the human mind, they're even more so! We also are only assuming that he is really mentally ill, there is no proof to that claim.

There was a guy in my hometown a few years back with a childlike mind who played with kids and dogs and everyone loved him. Then one day he freaked out and killed some lady with pruning shears and bashed her little girl's head on the fireplace until she died. Her toddler son revived and told cops how 'the dog man' did it. I'm not accusing Jackson of murder or molestation, just that it seems to be a very volatile situation that should be ended as soon as possible for everyone's sake, his own included, but especially those children.

I agree. It's very dangerous for anyone with symptoms like this to not get them treated by mental health professionals. I should know, I went for years without having my autism treated. It was hellish. I don't understand why anyone chooses not to do something about things like this. It's nuts.
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Old 02-10-2003, 02:39 PM   #94
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There are different types of mental illness. A very, very small percentage of people with mental illnesses are violent. Taking medications and seeing a therapist won't cure you of eccentric behaviour or make other people think you're less "weird."
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Old 02-10-2003, 03:14 PM   #95
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To answer Angie's question....Personally I feel it is suspect for anyone who is 44 to want to sleep in the same bed or even the room as a 12 year old. Perhaps it is my cynical mind working, or being drilled as a child about "bad touching" from the schools, but to have a desire like that just strikes me as being odd.

Yes, I agree Jackson does have a mental illness, I found that to be quite apparent after watching that program.

Do I think he molested those children? I don't really know, I guess it depends on who's story you want to believe. I certainly hope he is innocent for the sake of the children that love and trust him. If he's guilty, I hope someone in his inner circle convinces him to get help.
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Old 02-10-2003, 03:22 PM   #96
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There are different types of mental illness. A very, very small percentage of people with mental illnesses are violent. Taking medications and seeing a therapist won't cure you of eccentric behaviour or make other people think you're less "weird."

That's very true. Some situations are really hopeless. It's unfortunate.
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Old 02-10-2003, 04:14 PM   #97
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Well the documentary hasn't been shown here but I saw the bit about "sharing a bed with children" in the news.

I don't know about mental illness part: certainly I'm no expert on that and I can't speak on MJ's personality from what I've seen on the media.

I do think that he's weird (the surgerys, covering baby with the veil...), but he doesn't strike me as someone who would hurt kids so badly. It's possilbe it's harmless and he's trying to re-live the childhood he never had.



Having said that, sharing a bed with children (other than his own) at his age is strange. I was watching Dr. Phil on Oprah once and he said that for kids to sleep in for too long (in age years) can be damaging to their personalities and can cause abnormal development.
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Old 02-10-2003, 04:37 PM   #98
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Originally posted by Desire4Bono


So I see you haven't bothered to read the article I posted. If #10, page 3 isn't 'rationale' enough for you, nothing ever will be. Read it. The kid said Michael put his tongue in his mouth, and he told him there was nothing wrong with that, just because other people think it is doesn't make it so! SO if he feels that way, and uses his twisted logic to influence children, is that not enough reason to keep them away from him?

I have read other articles which explained the situation with MJ paying off. Canīt tell you where it was anymore, and I wonīt waste time to find it out. Basically it said the MJ was betrayed. Now who knows, I donīt. You donīt. Our statements are not qualified. It was over with MJīs career the first time that things were getting into press (and due to other reasons, bad mktg etc.).

I donīt really care about this issue- not because of the children, I care for any victim - but because I am very careful to judge people.

You said sorry for the statement you made to meegannie, so I leave it upon her to not flame you for that. If you implied I was a child molester, things would be different. Watch your tongue, in other situations you might as well get sued for assumptions like that. I am not accusing you of anything, I am just telling you facts. In this world you have to show evidence before judging someone.

I think the whole discussion is senseless and ridiculous, because no one knows MJ personally.

That said, I guess we all agree that child molesters should at the very least stay in prison for all their life for what they have done.

If this issue is very important to you, you might as well get in action. I donīt know where you are from, but I assume child abuse happens in your town, too. Maybe you can help those children by working in an organization that provides help? Get some information about that, instead of discussing about MJ.

Use your power for something constructive, not for something destructive.
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Old 02-10-2003, 11:33 PM   #99
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Originally posted by jkayet
I agree. I didn't see the special, so I can't comment directly on that, but just following this line of argument, I'm disregarding the fact that it's MJ and just looking at the situation. I mean, everybody has their views of him, mostly negative, although who really knows the person behind the public persona? Anyway, the situation - I don't think a 44 yr old man sleeping in the same room/bed as a child is necessarily wrong, unless something can be proven. A person giving children extravagance and a different type of world isn't bad - maybe different, but not bad. It is an innocent act in and of itself. The mental health aspect is something I think you just realize with time and experience in life. As I've gotten older, I've realized that I can never truly understand where someone else is coming from, but that doesn't make the way they live their life and the way they try to create happiness wrong. Everyone has issues, and it's just a matter of dealing with those issues - it might make them different, difficult to understand, etc, but NOT criminal. And I don't know who the parents of all these children are, but they certainly weren't kidnapped and held against their will. (at least I don't think so, I haven't heard to the contrary)
Just knowing what I do know about MJ, it seems he was deprived of his own childhood, and might be trying to live in that now. Strange? Maybe....but it certainly doesn't make him wrong. Saying all this, I"m NOT a fan of the man at all, but the point of all this was to NOT look at him...just get rid of the preconceived notions of him and open up my mind a bit. Of course, anyone who harms children is sick and needs serious help, but that's just not something I'd want to just assume about someone.
Thankyou jkayet! You summed it up much clearer than I did

Desire4Bono, we are essentially talking about 2 seperate issues, molestation and mental illness. They dont go hand in hand, although its possible that there is something 'wrong' with those who do abuse young children. But it is never accurate to assume that because of a percieved or diagnosed mental condition that one molests children. You mentioned that its people in here making the assumptions he has such an illness, and maybe I am misreading your replies, but it seems that you are running the 2 together.
Quote:
Originally posted by Desire4Bono

So now we have to spread that 'tolerance' to those who are possibly damaging others? If you want to feel sorry for him, have fun. You may 'tolerate' the way he is but he still should not be free to do just anything he chooses. If there is any 'compassion' to be given out, save it for the kids, not him!
I tried to split my post up into the 2 areas, the second part where you quote my reference to tolerance and compassion is for those with mental illness. Not for those accused and convicted of child abuse allegations. MJ has been accused, but never convicted. Of course you can quite rightly reply that that doesn't indicate innocence, as it doesn't. But the fact that no one here knows for sure he is guilty works both ways. No one knows Jordan Chandler either. I dont want to disregard the accusations a child makes, as there is always the possibility it is correct. But we just dont know for sure. The only 2 people who do, are not here to join our discussion.

But anyway, we could go around in circles all day discussing this, but it probably wont achieve a lot. Meegannie initially replied simply saying that she didn't view this as anything wrong. And its quite clear that her statement is based on the proviso that there is no inappropriate physical contact. Some of us agree that it is probably quite harmless. Bah, I've forgotten half the things I wanted to say now, so I'll shut up and hope no arguments break out as a result of my opinionated posts
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:26 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem



Desire4Bono, we are essentially talking about 2 seperate issues, molestation and mental illness. They dont go hand in hand, although its possible that there is something 'wrong' with those who do abuse young children. But it is never accurate to assume that because of a percieved or diagnosed mental condition that one molests children. You mentioned that its people in here making the assumptions he has such an illness, and maybe I am misreading your replies, but it seems that you are running the 2 together.

Yes, you are misreading my posts. I never thought he'd molest kids because of mental illlness, I was worried about the kids because of his odd behavior over the last dozen or so years and the show I watched and other info. I never even thought he was mentally ill, and had never seen anything about that anywhere but from Meeganie in this thread. She is the one who brought that up and based everything on that and we don't even know it's a fact. Just because he looks 'obviously' mentally ill to you on TV doesn't make it official, he's never been diagnosed just as he'd never been convicted of molestation. It's all speculation. But anyone can see he is very strange, and that can lead to a lot of problems and bad scenarios. I just think it's a weird situation that could scar the kids emotionally for life even if they aren't officially molested. If you all are so concerned about poor Michael being disturbed because of his bad childhood, let's not make more bad childhoods here. All I'm saying is, this guy is some kind of freak, mentally ill or not, GET THE KIDS OUT OF THE FREAKING BED!! That's all! If Jackson wants to be weird alone, I don't care. He can look at porn, draw porn, play with dolls, even his monkey. Just leave those little kids alone. Please.

About me running 2 things together, no, no, no. I already explained I felt this way before "mental illness" was mentioned. I thought this thread was called "Michael Jackson" not "meeganie's opinions and hypothesis on anonymous mental illness."

I understand what U2girl is saying that even though she disapproves you don't judge, well, like I said, he can do what he wants on his own with toys but when children are involved it's a different story and they are the priority, not Michael's wants and feelings and problems. Tabby is right that you can't make this a hypothetical thing about mental illness because everybody and their situation and their mental illness are different. We are talking about Michael Jackson here, that's what the thread is about. If anyone wants a deeper discussion on various mental illnesses, we need a new thread.

Yes Angela Harlem, you are very opinionated and so am I. To me meeganie seems that way too, someone who always has to be right. It's clear she is very popular here and has a bunch of friends to back her up. I was very disturbed by her comments that seemed to say there was nothing wrong with what Jackson was doing because I think there is and most people would agree it's just not right. I will try to stick to PLEBA from now on.
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:34 AM   #101
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars

You said sorry for the statement you made to meegannie, so I leave it upon her to not flame you for that. If you implied I was a child molester, things would be different. Watch your tongue, in other situations you might as well get sued for assumptions like that. I am not accusing you of anything, I am just telling you facts. In this world you have to show evidence before judging someone.
I knew that was a bad move, and as I said I immediately regretted it and edited the post. For her to quote it and leave it up even after I edited it and apologized was very bad form IMO. It was obvious she wanted it to be seen by her friends to make me look bad. I realized I made a mistake and I changed it and apologized. That's all anyone can ask of anyone. Leaving it up was just plain hateful.

About 'judging someone' you and Angela Harlem had a good old time doing that to me, so who are you to lecture? It all depends on who your friends are and which side you are on, not right or wrong. As I said, I will now avoid this forum and FYM and stay in PLEBA
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:43 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desire4Bono



Yes Angela Harlem, you are very opinionated and so am I. To me meeganie seems that way too, someone who always has to be right. It's clear she is very popular here and has a bunch of friends to back her up. I was very disturbed by her comments that seemed to say there was nothing wrong with what Jackson was doing because I think there is and most people would agree it's just not right. I will try to stick to PLEBA from now on.
this is exactly why threads like these turn into giant messes.

You can disagree with the opinion, but don't insult the person for having that opinion.

When the arguements into personal slants, that's when things go south.

This could have been a constructive debate, instead it's turned into a teenage drama...with the "oh people like her more, so they are gonna side with her."

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion, and whether you agree with it or not, it should be respected. No, I don't completely agree with what Meggy said, nor do I completely agree with what you are saying. But everyone should have a right to say what they want without it turning into a shit slinging match.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:12 AM   #103
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god...all this shitslinging over MJ...what daisy says makes alot of sense. lets not insult everyone because we have different opinions. sometimes we regret what we say and we end up editing our posts, and then the other person sees it anyways and quotes it. it happens to all of us. it happened to me in FYM. i made a rude comment to someone, she(who's no longer here) picked it up before i could edit it and thankfully i apologized and all hell didnt break loose because of that. i don't think meggy didn't quote the post to make you look bad, desire4bono. your editing your posts now and yet some are still quoting original content. it happens.

*edited for spelling.

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Old 02-11-2003, 11:26 AM   #104
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god...all this shitslinging over MJ...what daisy says makes alot of sense. lets not insult everyone because we have different opinions. sometimes we regret what we say and we end up editing our posts, and then the other person sees it anyways and quotes it. it happens to all of us. it happened to me in FYM. i made a rude comment to someone, she(who's no longer here) picked it up before i could edit it and thankfully i apologized and all hell didnt break loose because of that. i don't think meggy didn't quote the post to make you look bad, desire4bono. your editing your posts now and yet some are still quoting original content. it happens.

*edited for spelling.

I agree--it's a bit nutty. I don't care that people have their opinions but I don't think we need a war over MJ.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:48 AM   #105
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I just don't understand what mental illness has to do with all this. Does it really make any difference? I don't think so. Whether or not he is or isn't, what he's doing with children in inappropriate. He should not be condoned or justified because of it even if he is. Hell, my older brother made fun of my nose too and I used to get whipped with the wooden stirring spoon and the pancake spatula when I was a kid, and I've never been rich and had millions of adoring fans or lived a glamorous life, but I don't mess with little kids. I don't feel sorry for MJ. As long as he sleeps or "plays" with consenting adults instead of kids, he can be just as perverted as he wants. It doesn't matter to me what his state of mind is, his lifestyle and his fetish for little kids is disturbing. If you're a parent or might be one someday, ask yourselves, would any of you let your kid sleepover at his house? Or any 44 year old man for that matter?
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