Kyzyl Superthread

[phillyfan26]

For us, big government means overgoverning. It means things like wiretapping, survelliance, banning gays from marriage and other rights, etc.

 

[Dalton]

Explain. Note that I'm mainly thinking healthcare, telecommunications, transport here.

Well there are always going to be federal issues and there will always have to be federal laws. Like I said, I am not an anarchist in any sense. Government is a good thing. I simply believe that those government chores are handled better on the state level. Tax money can be used in a more focused way to benefit the people in the area that the taxes come from.

 

[phillyfan26]

Our federal government currently does an absurd amount of spending. That has to be the first thing to go, or none of this rhetoric about smaller government means anything.

 

[Axver]

For us, big government means overgoverning. It means things like wiretapping, survelliance, banning gays from marriage and other rights, etc.

To me, in theory, small government should mean the government acts as a kind of neutral mediator, like a referee or an umpire. Big government takes an active role in the welfare of its citizens. Obviously that's an enormously gross simplification, but you see what I mean.

My favourite example, naturally, is the railways. The government should run the national network, primarily for social benefit with fiscal profit an important but secondary consideration. If anybody thinks they can do better, then they are free to establish a private company in competition with the government.

 

[Axver]

Well there are always going to be federal issues and there will always have to be federal laws. Like I said, I am not an anarchist in any sense. Government is a good thing. I simply believe that those government chores are handled better on the state level. Tax money can be used in a more focused way to benefit the people in the area that the taxes come from.

I'm not going to disagree with that, as there are obviously issues where local councils and state governments are far better suited. But in terms of things like healthcare, I think it's essential to nationalise that to take care of the entire citizenry equally; education, to establish national standards; transportation, because you need unified, cohesive national infrastructure to link the country, etc.

 

[phillyfan26]

I just want the government to fuck off with telling people what to do. It's doing too much.

I mean, there's things it's not doing I want it do, i.e.: health care. There's things it's not doing it should be doing, i.e.: everyone gets equal rights, the rights are enforced.

So, I guess I just want my government to get its head out of its ass.

 

[Axver]

To me, it seems like US politics are bogged down in hysteria and meddling with people who middle class white Christians don't like, and the concept of taking care of all citizens equally is absent. There seems to be an implicit "fuck the poor".

 

[phillyfan26]

It's much easier to "feel" guilty about the sins of others out loud than to actually experience guilt.

 

[Axver]

I always feel like such a serious leftie in these kinds of discussions. I'd say I'm comfortably in the mainstream left in all other Western societies, but in US politics, I really do feel on the fringe.

 

[phillyfan26]

I think your views are for the most part similar to mine.

I think it's just that while neither of us understand the US right very well, I understand it a little bit better having lived here and knowing those people.

 

[Axver]

The US right frankly scares the shit out of me because it is just so fucking extreme and wields so much power. The parties they would fit into here are by and large the wacky minor parties nobody would even dream of taking seriously.

 

[phillyfan26]

It wields power because the US has a large population of religios fanatics and, as one FYM poster put it, "Fuck you, I got mine" attitudes. That's the United States Republican Party.

 

[Axver]

On another note, PFan, I swear, Ziggy Stardust better be the second coming of Jesus. It's being a royal pain in the arse to transfer to my Mac for no apparent reason.

 

[Axver]

It wields power because the US has a large population of religios fanatics and, as one FYM poster put it, "Fuck you, I got mine" attitudes. That's the United States Republican Party.

What I find interesting is a socio-religious comparison between the US and the rest of the Western world. Things were fairly equal a century ago, all things considered, but while the rest of the place secularised, you guys developed fundamentalism in a big way.

Personally, I think religion is in the first stages of its death throes in the Western world, and although the US lags behind most other places in social issues at present, it'll join the trend sooner or later.

 

[phillyfan26]

On another note, PFan, I swear, Ziggy Stardust better be the second coming of Jesus. It's being a royal pain in the arse to transfer to my Mac for no apparent reason.

Well, it's not prog, but it's damn good. I think YLB put it best: "a classic in every sense of the word."

What other albums are you downloading?

 

[phillyfan26]

What I find interesting is a socio-religious comparison between the US and the rest of the Western world. Things were fairly equal a century ago, all things considered, but while the rest of the place secularised, you guys developed fundamentalism in a big way.

Personally, I think religion is in the first stages of its death throes in the Western world, and although the US lags behind most other places in social issues at present, it'll join the trend sooner or later.

Just me as an example, I've become much less religious in the past five years. It's becoming a turn-off, because it's so ... wrong all the time.

 

[Dalton]

Just me as an example, I've become much less religious in the past five years. It's becoming a turn-off, because it's so ... wrong all the time.

Ax how old are you?

 

[Axver]

Well, it's not prog, but it's damn good. I think YLB put it best: "a classic in every sense of the word."

What other albums are you downloading?

I have to transfer every song individually. Each time, I get an error that the "file path is too deep", but it successfully transfers. This is lame. Not downloading anything else at the moment, though I know there's stuff I need to get onto. One of the other Daniels is going to kill me if I don't download Muse live at Wembley soon.

 

[Axver]

Ax how old are you?

I'm 21.

 

[bono_man2002]

One of the other Daniels is going to kill me if I don't download Muse live at Wembley soon.

Actually you can probably wait a few more weeks until the DVD is released with more tracks, there should be leak of that audio available too.

But the CD is fantastic as it is!

 

[Axver]

Just me as an example, I've become much less religious in the past five years. It's becoming a turn-off, because it's so ... wrong all the time.

I was raised non-religious, had an atheist period, then a religious period, then realised I was right the first time.

Following the statistics, religion is absolutely fucked in New Zealand. At the start of the last century, over 90% of the New Zealand population was Christian. This only slowly declined; just before I was born, in the mid-eighties, 75% of New Zealand was Christian. But in my lifetime, it has plummeted. Now, only just over 50% of the population is Christian, 39% is explicitly "no religion", and if this trend continues on its current trajectory, within a decade, "no religion" will be the majority religious stance.

The crucial factor to note is that those in the 20-24 and 25-29 demographics in the mid-eighties who identified as no religion have not acquired religion later in life, i.e. it's not a youthful disregard for religion that later changes. They still today have the same rate of "no religion" now that they're 40-44 and 45-49. That, however, was still only a minority of the demographic - a very considerable one, but a minority. More ominously, the current 20-24 demographic is majority "no religion", with absolutely no indication that any change will occur.

And New Zealand has this funny habit of being a leader in social trends. Just look at women's rights ...

 

[Axver]

Actually you can probably wait a few more weeks until the DVD is released with more tracks, there should be leak of that audio available too.

But the CD is fantastic as it is!

Oh, does the CD not have the whole gig?

 

[bono_man2002]

Oh, does the CD not have the whole gig?

Nope. Its 11 or so tracks. Pretty much a taste tester for the DVD.

But there are some fucking great performances on it!

 

[Axver]

Nope. Its 11 or so tracks. Pretty much a taste tester for the DVD.

But there are some fucking great performances on it!

Wow, that's lame, I can't believe they wouldn't put the full gig on there.

 

[phillyfan26]

I was raised non-religious, had an atheist period, then a religious period, then realised I was right the first time.

Following the statistics, religion is absolutely fucked in New Zealand. At the start of the last century, over 90% of the New Zealand population was Christian. This only slowly declined; just before I was born, in the mid-eighties, 75% of New Zealand was Christian. But in my lifetime, it has plummeted. Now, only just over 50% of the population is Christian, 39% is explicitly "no religion", and if this trend continues on its current trajectory, within a decade, "no religion" will be the majority religious stance.

The crucial factor to note is that those in the 20-24 and 25-29 demographics in the mid-eighties who identified as no religion have not acquired religion later in life, i.e. it's not a youthful disregard for religion that later changes. They still today have the same rate of "no religion" now that they're 40-44 and 45-49. That, however, was still only a minority of the demographic - a very considerable one, but a minority. More ominously, the current 20-24 demographic is majority "no religion", with absolutely no indication that any change will occur.

And New Zealand has this funny habit of being a leader in social trends. Just look at women's rights ...

I'm still Christian, and always will be, but my attitude has strongly changed.

 

[bono_man2002]

Back to work for me.

Bye Guys

 

[bono_man2002]

Wow, that's lame, I can't believe they wouldn't put the full gig on there.

I know , but every band and his dog are doing this these days. At least the split enz one game with the dvd. even if it wasn't the complete gig.

 

[Dalton]

Does New Zealand have a state church?

 

[phillyfan26]

I have to transfer every song individually. Each time, I get an error that the "file path is too deep", but it successfully transfers. This is lame. Not downloading anything else at the moment, though I know there's stuff I need to get onto. One of the other Daniels is going to kill me if I don't download Muse live at Wembley soon.

I think you'd adore Low.

 

[Axver]

Does New Zealand have a state church?

No. The National Statement on Religious Diversity explicitly states that there is no official or established religion.

There is a minority that claims the Church of England is the state church due to the Queen's role in it. However, her role in the Church of England is as part of her position as Queen of England, not as Queen of New Zealand.