Howlong, New South Wales Superthread

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coolian2 said:
Australia has always been disgustingly racist, not just to the Aborigines either. Immigrants get a lot of shit too, and they treat others the way they get treated, it's a shit cycle.

I mean, there's a difference between a bit of ribbing over being a Kiwi and constantly being given shit for it.
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Not sure how you can say that since you're not Australian, indeed you get ockers and countryfolk that might say something rude because they're not used to seeing so many Indians, Africans, Arabs and east Asians, but I've never seen someone yell prejudice on the streets, probably only very, very drunk people. Race is a big issue that's dominant here, but I don't think we're as bad as you guys might think. Don't know how it is outside of Adelaide, though.
 
The Sad Punk said:
Oh, that's another thing - Australia in the early 20th century loved Maoris, lots of them were sent here and regarded highly. But yes, the Aboriginals were still seen as subhuman.
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The Maori really did themselves a lot of favours in the eyes of Europeans by being extremely skilled at warfare and actually defeating the British on numerous occasions, to the point that Britain never actually was able to occupy the central North Island. The central North Island is not called the King Country because of any English monarch; it's because the Maori King had sovereignty! The only reason European settlement ever took place in the King Country is because the Maori permitted them to build the Auckland - Wellington railway through there. Woops. The intention was for the trains to simply run through there, but the Maori didn't count on all those construction camps and railway refuelling stations turning into permanent towns.
 
Axver said:
The Maori really did themselves a lot of favours in the eyes of Europeans by being extremely skilled at warfare and actually defeating the British on numerous occasions, to the point that Britain never actually was able to occupy the central North Island. The central North Island is not called the King Country because of any English monarch; it's because the Maori King had sovereignty! The only reason European settlement ever took place in the King Country is because the Maori permitted them to build the Auckland - Wellington railway through there. Woops. The intention was for the trains to simply run through there, but the Maori didn't count on all those construction camps and railway refuelling stations turning into permanent towns.
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So trains are the reason North Island was colonised. Well, in that case the history of railways in NZ actually sounds more interesting than I thought it would be!
 
The Sad Punk said:
Not sure how you can say that since you're not Australian, indeed you get ockers and countryfolk that might say something rude because they're not used to seeing so many Indians, Africans, Arabs and east Asians, but I've never seen someone yell prejudice on the streets, probably only very, very drunk people. Race is a big issue that's dominant here, but I don't think we're as bad as you guys might think. Don't know how it is outside of Adelaide, though.
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No, I'd echo Ian's comments. This country's latent, subconscious racism is probably some of the worst in the world. It targets everyone, and the Basil Fawlty "oh, he's from Barcelona" attitude seems to apply to just about anybody who doesn't come from an English-speaking background. I'm sick to death of hearing racist comments about Sudanese, "wogs", "Lebs", Muslims, Indians ... I know people who avoid the Gold Coast Hospital because they're afraid they'll get an Indian doctor.

And just as a Kiwi, I had a shit time in Australia initially. I'm sick of the same stupid insults being repeated ad nauseum. No need to rub it in for a whole fucking decade.
 
Subconscious racism, yeah. A real identity with where you're from and what you are. But I don't hear so many racist comments from my friends or people I'm usually with - and the people that say them tend to be wankers anyway. It's not on everyone's mind, we're not all like that. I think you'd get the same in other countries like the States too, I'm afraid we all can't be fucking New Zealand!
 
The Sad Punk said:
So trains are the reason North Island was colonised. Well, in that case the history of railways in NZ actually sounds more interesting than I thought it would be!
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Part of the reason I study history is because of railways. You really can't be a Kiwi railfan without finding yourself learning about stuff that is at the absolute centre of how the country developed. In the 19th century, the railway was viewed as the means of opening up both islands to settlement beyond the coastal towns and ports that had been established. It was just impossible to travel any kind of distance before the railway - if you lived in Tauranga in 1855, the central government then in Auckland might as well have been on the moon to you. When the railway opened, suddenly they were less than a day apart.

One of my core points that I repeat fairly frequently is that the development of a national railway network turned New Zealand from a bunch of disconnected British coastal colonies into a cohesive, independent country.
 
Axver said:
Part of the reason I study history is because of railways. You really can't be a Kiwi railfan without finding yourself learning about stuff that is at the absolute centre of how the country developed. In the 19th century, the railway was viewed as the means of opening up both islands to settlement beyond the coastal towns and ports that had been established. It was just impossible to travel any kind of distance before the railway - if you lived in Tauranga in 1855, the central government then in Auckland might as well have been on the moon to you. When the railway opened, suddenly they were less than a day apart.

One of my core points that I repeat fairly frequently is that the development of a national railway network turned New Zealand from a bunch of disconnected British coastal colonies into a cohesive, independent country.
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That's pretty damn cool! Tell me then, how much of a role did railways play over here?
 
The Sad Punk said:
Subconscious racism, yeah. A real identity with where you're from and what you are. But I don't hear so many racist comments from my friends or people I'm usually with - and the people that say them tend to be wankers anyway. It's not on everyone's mind, we're not all like that. I think you'd get the same in other countries like the States too, I'm afraid we all can't be fucking New Zealand!
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See, I've encountered it even from my own family and friends, both Aussie and Kiwi branches, and I find it deeply troubling. The difference I've noticed is that those who do it in New Zealand tend to have right wing political tendencies and it isn't all too surprising, but in Australia, I'll even hear it from people firmly on the left.

But I do get the feeling that the Gold Coast isn't exactly a hub of intellect and positive race relations. I've found things more positive in Melbourne.
 
The Sad Punk said:
That's pretty damn cool! Tell me then, how much of a role did railways play over here?
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I don't know the history of Australia's railways nearly as well, but from what I do know, it was on a lesser scale to New Zealand. Especially in Victoria and New South Wales, the railways were used to build the regional economy, though the land had been already opened up to settlement unlike in New Zealand, where the towns came with the railway.

Since Australia was much more established by the coming of the railway and the colonies/states were well entrenched, it wasn't really possible for the railway to play the socio-political role it did in New Zealand of breaking down provincial boundaries.
 
Life is mediocre.

Which feels pretty fuckin' good compared to February.
 
coolian2 said:
Interesting point. My preference if we even bothered with a change would just be to stick our nice red southern cross on that nice blue background.

Or something similar to the Khanadian, er, Canadian flag.
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I tend to consider the silver fern to be our national flag. It symbolises something uniquely Kiwi and means something to me. The Southern Cross, not so much, especially since we share that with Australia.

The one criticism I've seen of the flag I shared is that it's too similar to the Canadian one, heh. I rather like the green sides myself, as it ties into a lot of New Zealand, both in terms of its landscape and its attitudes.
 
The Sad Punk said:
Subconscious racism, yeah. A real identity with where you're from and what you are. But I don't hear so many racist comments from my friends or people I'm usually with - and the people that say them tend to be wankers anyway. It's not on everyone's mind, we're not all like that. I think you'd get the same in other countries like the States too, I'm afraid we all can't be fucking New Zealand!
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I suppose for the sake of being totally transparent, i have been known to make jokes based on stereotypes of cultures. 99% of the time in the presence of my friends from said cultures - eg one of my mates from Iraq was the first to crack a joke about him being a terrorist.

The unspoken rule we have is that so long as the person from the culture we're having a laugh at is leading the joking, it's fair game.



Have i just become evil to anyone?
 
coolian2 said:
I suppose for the sake of being totally transparent, i have been known to make jokes based on stereotypes of cultures. 99% of the time in the presence of my friends from said cultures - eg one of my mates from Iraq was the first to crack a joke about him being a terrorist.

The unspoken rule we have is that so long as the person from the culture we're having a laugh at is leading the joking, it's fair game.



Have i just become evil to anyone?
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Someone of that race making a joke about their race is a pretty legit thing in the Western world, I guess. And an affectionate derogatory term from a friend is sometimes okay, sometimes incredibly annoying.
 
coolian2 said:
I suppose for the sake of being totally transparent, i have been known to make jokes based on stereotypes of cultures. 99% of the time in the presence of my friends from said cultures - eg one of my mates from Iraq was the first to crack a joke about him being a terrorist.

The unspoken rule we have is that so long as the person from the culture we're having a laugh at is leading the joking, it's fair game.



Have i just become evil to anyone?
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No, this tends to be my attitude as well. There's a huge difference between friendly jokes made in good humour, and insults. Plus, I think it's the nature of Kiwi humour to be depreciating, especially self-depreciating. I'll make jokes about myself being Kiwi, I've ragged on U-Wen in these threads for being Asian (and he's not been shy to rag on Asians himself!), my flatmate in Brisbane and I joked about how he was a "wog" since his family's from Malta, etc. But I think there's a world of difference between Luke going through a whole bottle of olive oil in the time it takes me to open one and me saying "you're such a fucking wog!" with a laugh, and some random person yelling "you're such a fucking wog!" at him if he were cheering on the Maltese soccer team at the pub.
 
OK, while this place has gone quiet, I'll seize the chance to attack some of the mountain of dishes I have. See you folks soon. :wave:
 
One of my girlfriend's good friends that she went to university with was murdered the other night. Mugged and stabbed to death. Fucking criminals who don't give a shit.
 
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